Print run rumours!

[Guest]

[ztaylork]

At 1800 cases (18,000 boxes) and 1 costume per box, and 14 costumes that means each costume will be numbered to an average of 1285, which is absolutely terrible because some will probably be less and there will then be costumes numbered out of like 2000.   It will be an entire set of Weasly quidditch costumes  This is most depressing.  That is the one thing that artbox could have done to kill the market.  And with so many sets to go.  I can understand doubling production this set, then maybe more the next set and slowly build it up.  But to jump from 500 to 1800 is absolute madness.  I don't think that it will bomb the way ROTK did, just becuase of the autograph lineup, but with only 2 autographs in each case many people will just turn to buying the autographs.  If this turns out to be true, and artbox kills this set, I will never buy another artbox item as long as I live, and you can all keep me at my word on that.    And I will definetly no longer promote artbox on every site that I go to, and will do just the opposite.  Just when I thought artbox had learned from some of topps mistakes, but wait they are making all the same mistakes, FOTR had 1:24 autograph ratios, then 1:36 for every set to follow (chrome set aside)  Artbox had 4 - 6 autographs in every case in the last set, now we will only see 2.  Absolute crap!!!  I would have prefered them raising the box prices by $10 - $15 than do this.  Please artbox confirm if this is true.

ztaylork

[rns91294]

I might be one of the few people who is not bothered by the overproduction of these, other than the fact that I do not want dud boxes.  I once asked on another forum, why Inkworks does not tell anyone how many of each of their costumes cards are made.  I thought them not telling anyone made it less fun.  For all you know, there are 10,000 copies of one of Buffy's outfits.  Now I know why they keep this a secret. They are worried their sets will become less wanted if we knew there was a card out there with such a high production.  Personally, if one card of this new Artbox set is limited to 2,000 and another to 1,000, that would not bother me one bit.  I am a collecter and fan of Harry Potter, and the numbers do not bother me.  The only thing that bothers me most is when it is a very limited number and prices on eBay are way to high for me to afford.  For example, the Hermione Pink Sweater (out of 450) is still going for close to $90 on eBay, which is more than I can afford.  And the Daily Prophet (200) is going for about $150.  These are both cards I would love to have in my collection, but can't for two reasons.  1) I did not pull them from my box or packs and 2) I can't afford that much money, as much as I would really want to be able to, but I just can't.

I understand this sucks for the people buying the cases and boxes simply to make some money off of them.  I mean, who doesn't want to make money? But for the collector doing this out of the pure love of it, it may make things easier for me to get the cards I really want.

The Weasley costume card from the last set, I would have to say is one of the nicest looking costume cards to the set, even if it did have the highest number produced.  I know everyone has a different opinion on this, but I personally like the costume and prop cards better than the autos (even if they are worth more in the end) so I am thrilled to hear the amount of props and costumes this set will have.

Now I would not have minded paying a little more for a higher guarantee of costumes, autos and props per box, but I think a higher number of run per item will make it easier for me to find the ones I want to add to my collection, if I don't get them from the three boxes I was able to order.

Remember though, this is all just my own personal opinion, which may very well be different from anyone else.

[mpcltd]

Well Said!!

[ztaylork]

I definetly agree with rns91294, to a point.  Yes it is nice as a collector to be able to have all the cards from the set at a decent price.  But at 1800 cases you might not get any dud boxes like last time, but many of them are going to seem to be dud boxes as you spend $60 to $70 for a box and get 1 costume card numbered to 1500 to 2000 and only worth $9.99.  When you open your three boxes and get two of the same costume card that can't be traded for much of anything, try to keep the same chipper attitude.  I opened 3 cases of the first set, and found 4 dud boxes, but found 5 boxes that had a costume, autgraph, and prop card in it.  I usually got around 18 insert cards in a case, and it was great from a collector standpoint.  I just think there needs to be a midpoint that keeps the cards valued and sought after, and the collectors happy.  I like a set that any early collector (within the first few months) can finish without a huge dent in the wallet, but then goes up over time (FOTR set, I cracked many of those boxes at $55 a pop, and the first Harry Potter set, I bought all of my cases for under $550 a case)  I guess for the sake of my wife not killing me I like to know that my cards keep their value, and when a set is overproduced they dont.  And if I get in a financial bind and need to sell my collection, I like to know that it isn't worth dirt.   Just my thoughts

ztaylork

[rns91294]

Thank you MPC.

Out of my three boxes, I highly doubt I will end up with a duplicate with the amount they are making this time.  And if I do, I am sure I will find someone to trade it with, even for a "less valuable" card, or someone I can give it to as a gift or something.  I do not mind spending $65 on a box and getting a mass produced card worth only $9.99.  After all, of all the other cards I have from other sets, I have no clue how many were even produced!

I want a few base sets, which 3 boxes ought to help me with, and to collect the other cards that I want.  See, it isn't about the money for me now, or 25 years from now.  I am a Harry Potter fan.  I enjoy opening these boxes just for the excitement and thrill of what "might" be inside, not what my one card might be worth.  These are items I want to share with my children some day if they decide to read the HP books and watch the movies.  These are something I would like to go back and look at years from now with my husband and smile, not think about what I could get for them if I sell them.

I completely understand that some people collect these just to sell them years from now if they go up in value, and that makes perfect sense to me. Or, like ztaylork said, to get him out of a bind if needed.  This all makes sense to me, so don't think that I don't understand that aspect of it, because I really do.  But I think that Artbox is making these sets initially for collectors and fans.

I really hope no one is offended by my opinion, as I just said, it is my opinion. I just don't think we should be upset with Artbox for trying to please their fans by making enough available for everyone.

[ztaylork]

I am not offended, and I hope that I have in no way offended you.  I just think that this is a tricky business anyways, and artbox needs to be careful because a lot of people do care.  Just think how many cases would it take before you felt a little burned on buying even your three boxes through pre-order.  If all of a sudden artbox announced they were going to produce 50,000 cases, my mind would do the math really quick and realize that at $65 a box, buying three boxes is not a good thing, as I could take the $195 dollars and buy a base set and pick and choose and end up with a lot of the inserts.   I do understand where you are coming from as a collector as I am one too and have been for a long time, but before non-sports I collected football cards and the overporduction of that burnt me out of it as none of them held there value, and after a while of spending $25 on a card only to have it be worth $1 a year later, it gets very depressing.  I just wish the card companies could find a happy medium to make everyone happy

ztaylork

[samwise16]

There is little way you can lose out on this set. With my 'winnings' i hope to build a snazzy new P.C   If it pulls off like i think it will

[rns91294]

Just think how many cases would it take before you felt a little burned on buying even your three boxes through pre-order.  If all of a sudden artbox announced they were going to produce 50,000 cases, my mind would do the math really quick and realize that at $65 a box, buying three boxes is not a good thing, as I could take the $195 dollars and buy a base set and pick and choose and end up with a lot of the inserts.  ztaylork

This makes complete sense to me.   I think I would still appreciate my three boxes since I honeslty do enjoy the thrill of opening all the packs rather than just picking and choosing from a dealer, no matter what I might end up with.  But for those who were looking to buy all these cases to resell, or keep what you want and sell what you don't want in hopes to get some of your money back, I completely understand.  I am not in that position, but if I was, yes, it would probably most definitely upset me.  So please believe me whan I say that I see your point of view completely.  It is just a little more difficult for me to understand right now since I am not in that position.  I just hope this does not discourage you guys from ordering these cases and boxes, because without all of you, how would I ever be able to get all the cards I wanted, but did not get from my boxes?

[kbmum]

I bought a lot of baseball and other sport cards back in the mid-80s, mostly because my baseball team went to the World Series (the Boston Red Sox -- those of you in the US may be able to appreciate how sleep deprived I've been over the past few days, and will be again tomorrow!).  Then I got a little caught up in the baseball card fever that ran wild in the late 80s and early 90s.  I didn't lose my shirt like many did when the market bottomed out, but when I sell for $5 a factory set I bought for $25, that's a bit painful, even so many years later.

The fault belonged to both the speculators/investors and the trading card industry.  They fed off each other and ended up making a huge mess of what had been a fun hobby.  It's still a mess today.  I hope that doesn't happen here.

[ztaylork]

It has not discouraged me at all....yet.    And I will definetly be looking to trade, so hopefully we will be able to help each other out.  

ztaylork

[ztaylork]

The only thing the non-sports cards market has is the fact that companies aren't competing, usually only one company gets the license to produce.  I can't imagine what would happen if there was a Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings set produced by Topps, Artbox, Rittenhouse, Inkworks, Fleer, UpperDeck, Score, .........and on and on and on, not to mention all the variant sets they came out with.  If that were allowed in non-sports it would kill the market, but from the collectors standpoint it might be better as one collector would be able to afford the set that only had a few autos and costumes and were hard to get (mostly just a base set) but another set would be more elite and have like some sports cards sets do, and autograph or costume in every pack, with packs costing $30 a pop.  Pick you poison I guess  

ztaylork

[rns91294]

It has not discouraged me at all....yet.    And I will definetly be looking to trade, so hopefully we will be able to help each other out.  

ztaylork

Oh good.  I have watched many of your auctions on eBay in the past and plan to in the future as well. We may end up doing business together sometime in the near future, whether it be a trade or a sale .

As for what kbmum just said, I notice that movie memorabilia seems to go up in price.  Just look at all the Star Wars stuff that is worth money today.  My husband has many of the original toys unopened from when he was a child.  We have them all in boxes in the attic, but still would not sell them as they bring back way to many memories for the both of us.  I think the sports cards seem to not do as well because of the constant changes, and all the new faces, etc.  The movies we watched will never change (until they come out again 20 years later with some added footage like Star Wars did).

[kbmum]

You know what's really nice?  That we can have a discussion like this, everyone being civil, no hurt feelings, no accusations, no flames -- unlike other forums that will not be named!

[beckham1]

It the value of the box that I want like Ztaylor I am or was more of a sports card collector before I found out about Harry Potter and LOTR cards.  I hated buying a box for $50 and getting two common jersey cards (same as costume cards for sports) that are worth squat.  If it wasn't the team I collect or a special card I felt like I threw away my money.  

Thats why I love LOTR cards and HP cards I feel like I am getting some value for my $'s.  I think the problem in nonsport cards is manufacturers change the story in the middle of the game.  Topps is the king of pulling a fast one on collectors - I think everyone is so happy with Artbox and doesn't want to see it happen with them either.

Anyway we will see in a week and a half.  15 inserts per box (not including 35 mm filmcards) will I think make everyone happy.  12 per case (of course we don't know anything about the costumes) will make me a little more nervous.

And finally on the subject remember that Artbox is charging the dealers $60+ extra a case for this product so we are paying more per box/case than last issue.

[ztaylork]

Plus movies don't retire early like Barry Sanders did, I cried that day  :'(  But still have all of the cards of him I ever collected, but that is about all of my once immaculate collection of sports cards that I gathered by mowing as many yards as I could during each summer of my adolescent life.  I am just glad that I couldn't get approved for a credit card at 13 as I would still be paying off that debt.  

ztaylork

[rns91294]

I can't imagine what would happen if there was a Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings set produced by Topps, Artbox, Rittenhouse, Inkworks, Fleer, UpperDeck, Score, .........and on and on and on, not to mention all the variant sets they came out with.  If that were allowed in non-sports it would kill the market, but from the collectors standpoint it might be better as one collector would be able to afford the set that only had a few autos and costumes and were hard to get (mostly just a base set)
ztaylork

Or it could end up costing the collector even more money because there would be so many more items needed to be bought.  Granted they would be cheaper, the more there are, the more it adds up to in the end:-\  But I am glad that this hasn't happened and I hope that it never does..

[kbmum]

Potomac was preselling for $57 -- did they get a special deal with Artbox?

[ztaylork]

yes, that was hard to pull a common jersey card for a team you despised.  the only thing that compares to that is pulling a Figwit auto, shame on topps for that

ztaylork

[rns91294]

I do agree that I do not think Artbox should have raised the price of these boxes.  It was fine before.  And since more are being produced, i would have liked to see the price stay the same or go lower.  But they know they will make money on this as well, as they know we will all end up buying them anyway.

I agree with kbmum.  There are so many different opinions and views here, but it is nice to be able to share them and understand them without an argument.  In fact, it can even help some of us to understand other views better.

I too do not want to see Artbox fall down hill.  But hopefully, after this run, they will find a happy medium for everyone for their next set.  

[beckham1]

Ztaylor - any barry cards looking to sell (Lions are my team best back ever)....

Anyway back to nonsport.  I think some dealers who presold early might have got burned a little by selling to low (GCX and Potomac were the lowest I have seen) of course it all depends on where you get them and who gets the best deal.  Maybe Artbox worked with them a little on it, but I am pretty sure that is a fact that Artbox raised the price.   My local guy preordered 2 cases for me for $525 each - he hasn't said anything to me yet about it being more, but he is the kind of guy that would eat it rather than tell me I had to pay him more.