So what was the purpose of the breaking of the fellowship?

[Guest]

[Roz]

I've often wondered this - as a wonderful protector why didn't Aragorn and the Fellowship go together to Mount Doom?


I can only think of a few reasons:

1) To enable the book to be less linear - although I find this confusing as it's hard to know what happened when in the time line

2) To make it seem more dangerous - I suppose we are told that Hobbits are small brave creatures but we rather doubt their abilities to save themselves neverlo the whole world. So this give Frodo and Sam the chance to struggle on alone and "show their wuality"

3) To give each and every character time to develop alone

What do you guys think? Would you have loved the story so much had it been a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG fellowship?

Any other reasons they might have been split up?

Disagree with me?

Let us know

[ferdinand_the_yak]

Much as I would have loved the fellowship to stick together, I think they had to split it up so that like you said, we could explore each character more fully than we could if it had been a group. And it would have been hard for Tolkien to tell us about Rohan and Gondor and the vital characters from them if everyone just went to Mordor. Alot of the plot lines would also not have worked if he had done so - eg. Merry would not have been able to save Eowyn from the Witch king, Saruman would not have been defeated at Helms Deep (leaving Gondor to be attacked from both sides) etc

Also logistics - it would be rather difficult to sneak 8 people into mordor as orcs. You'd have to give Gandalf and Gimli a shave and Legolas a haircut (and somehow make him shorter)

Ummm Roz... whats wuality?

Edit: sorry, I got it now - quality. Duh I thought you were trying to say loyalty and it got me confused

[savage727]

You know that hindsight is 20/20.  I think I would have loved the story whatever way JRR Tolkien wrote it.  It is hard to comment on your questions Roz as it is a "What If" type of question you are asking.  

[Roz]

Ooh but I like "what if" questions, "what if" Boromir hadn't died and had claimed the ring for Gondor?

What if Saruman had not gone over to the dark side

 

Now I am just stirring up trouble!

[savage727]

I think that if Boromir took the Ring from Frodo he would have been corrupted by it and become a servant of he who shall not be named!!  And I don't mean Voldemort!!  

If Saruman had not gone over to the "Dark Side" I think he would have made a great one-two punch with Gandalf against the forces of evil.

Now Roz we all like a little bit of "trouble" from you every now and then!  

[Roz]

OOoh - more trouble coming up!

What if Saruman was not killed by Wormtongue and went about the country causing trouble (like he was just prior to his death in the Scouring)?

What if Gandalf had chosen "the Gaffer" as "the burgular" in the Hobbit???

Hee hee - now instead of asking simple questions about the story I am totally messing things around... I shall shoot myself shortly for messing with the sacred writings!

 

[ferdinand_the_yak]

Bad Roz!

*wags finger in direction I believe the UK to be*
(actually with my sense of direction, I'm probably pointing to Brazil )

However... lets join in the fun - what if Frodo let Gollum be shot by Faramir's soldiers? Would that have meant a sure failure of the trip as they did not know about Cirith Ungol and would have gone straight ot the Gate. Would Faramir have gone with them? (in the books I mean, no 'the Ring will go to Gondor' crap from the movie - I was v annoyed with that, it made Faramir seem as easily corrupted which he wasn't... . Faramir was/is one of my fave characters from the books and later the movie)

Here's a couple of questions... in the book ROTK, Gandalf mentions that Denethor is disapppointed that the blood of Numenor runs in Faramir's veins and not Boromirs - how did that happen? Selective inheritence? I am guessing they had the same mother?

Also, when the hobbits (Frodo, Bilbo and Sam) and Gimli later go to the Grey Havens, does that mean they will live forever like all the elves? Or have longer lives - or just die normally? I never knew what happened to them - maybe its in some of Tolkien's later works on Middle Earth or stuff that Christopher Tolkien did later. Has anyone read anything that may shed some light on this?

[savage727]

Good question FTY about The Grey Havens - I do not know the answer but I always thought they would live forever with the Elves - that's what I want to believe!  

I too like Faramir and was not really pleased by the way he was portrayed in the movies.  From your post it sounds like they did not have the same mother!!  

Without Gollum around, Frodo & Sam would not have gotten into Mordor in my opinion.

Roz:

If Saruman was not taken care of by Wormtongue maybe the Hobbits would have nailed him!!  

Boy you are stretching it with "The Gaffer" question!  

[ferdinand_the_yak]

Oops, forgot to answer the Saruman question!

I think a letter or two addressed to Mr Gandalf the White c/o His Royal Highness King Elessar, Minas Tirith, Gondor, Middle Earth would have taken care of that!   Actually, that sparks another question - if Saruman did take up Gandalf's offer at the end of ROTK, what role do you think he would have played? Would he have been allowed to go to the Grey Havens later do you think?

[savage727]

In answer to your question if Saruman would have been allowed to go to the Grey Havens - I do not think so after all the death and destruction he was responsible for.  I do not think he would have had any role as he would not have been trusted.

[ferdinand_the_yak]

But gandalf said to him 'there is still a role you can play' (something like that)

[savage727]

I think he was going to offer him the Head Cooks position at the new Burger King that was opening in Bree!!  

[ferdinand_the_yak]

 

[savage727]

Hey FTY:

I see that last answer left you speechless!  

Come on - can't you just picture Saruman in his Burger King work outfit with the cardboard Burger King crown on his head, he would probably need a hairnet for sanitary purposes, maybe one for his head and one for his beard!  Saruman standing at the cash register taking food orders: "Order the Super Sized Meal or I will turn you into a newt!" Grimma - I said two Whoppers and a small fries not a small fry!!  

Ok Ok that's what happens to you when you have a Birthday and start to get older!!  You ramble!  

[Roz]

Well we are a day late so I doubt there'd be a lot of enthusiasm for a chorus of Happy Birthday... what about a sing - along of

"Those Magnificent Men In Their Flying Machines"





(please tell me that that song has made it across the atlantic!)

[savage727]

Thanks Roz!!    Yes you will be happy to know that song has made it to our shores!!  

I assume you have seen the movie by that same name?  It was made in the early 1960's and had a great cast and some wonderful antique flying machines.

[ferdinand_the_yak]

Happy birthday Ed, have a great day and a drink (or ten ) for me!

As for Saruman in Burger Kings, you would not want to get him annoyed or he would deliver some of his WWF (Wizard Wrestling Federation) moves on rude customers - v painful as Gandalf could attest.

[savage727]

Thanks FTY!     Boy isn't that the truth!  If a mere mortal went through the punishment Gandalf went through he/she would be a basket case!  

Moral of the story - do not tick off a Wizard!!  

[robwaddle]

Crumbs!!  I dunno where to start with this  

OK, in no particular order......

1. The Grey Havens. The only immortals are elves. Bilbo and Frodo were allowed to sail as they were the major surviving Ringbearers. Galadriel intereceded on Bilbos behalf and Arwen gave her place to Frodo. It's my belief that they both went West to live out the remainder of their days in peace.

2.  Saruman @ BK. Eternal damnation!?!
I'm sure the Eldar would approve. Come to think of it,  I'm sure I saw him and Worm muttering to each other in the Cheltenham branch the other day   Saruman is now Regional Manager for South West England  :P

3. Despite what it says in Unfinished Tales, Gandalf did select the Gaffer to go with the dwarves. Trouble is, the pipeweed gave Gandalf a funny turn and he invited Bilbo instead. The Gaffer (who went to his grave believing he'd been invited) never forgave Gandalf, which is why he concocted all the malicious lies and rumours about Gandalf leading the hobbits astray that JRRT alludes to in LOTR. The Gaffer had an evil temper, and a long memory!!

4. If Boromir had got the ring, he'd have gone to Minas Tirith, duffed Denethor up before Gandalf got anywhere near and then given the ring to Faramir to cheer him up 'cos dad was so beastly to him. Faramir would then bump Aragorn off as he decided Arwen was a better bet than Eowyn (despite having never met either of them)   Trouble is, Faramir had overlooked Gollum, who'd realised what fun a menage with Arwen AND Eowyn could be. Bear with me... I'm getting there  

Net result - Lord Smeagol ruler of all he saw and with two devoted ladies in tow.

And nobody lived happily ever after

BTW, I own the rights to this version and anyone from New Line who's interested can contact me thro' my agent  

Rob

[ferdinand_the_yak]

I... am disturbed. Will never look at Gollum in the same way again

I don't see why it would be more peaceful in the Grey Havens than Middle Earth though, surely Elessar would be keeping things in check? Ah well... I think I just liked the idea of Frodo, Bilbo and Sam living forever Does it say that for certain that they do not?

I really should read all of Tolkien's work when I have time!