The Yak Shack Forum

I pulled a sketch card from a star Wars heritage box by Russell walks and now over at Scoundrelpublishing I am being acused of colouring the sketch. The card is as pulled from the pack. marleyed says "Russ said he did NOT color this card, but he thinks this is just a bad scan. So - depending on your point of view on the picture, buyer beware!"

How can you judge me without talking to me they need to know i pulled this card as is and I am not guilty of anything. It sucks is this trial by Forum???   >:() >:() >:() >:()

take a read of this

http://scoundrelpublishing.com/spart/viewtopic.php?p=6560&sid=5e261c5bee246d74f80acaf43c580f21#6560

People spend their lives making snap decisions about people without ever speaking to them. This is not surprising in the least. There's always *someone* who is certain they know the truth, regardless of whether they're correct or not.

You know the origin of the card, you know you didn't color it, and you have your integrity overall to support you - whether a group of people on any particular forum believe you or not is, at best a fraction of the people who would see the sketch and bid on it.

Now, I just need to follow my own advice and I'd be a much happier person :)

I can't say i am not upset by this but thank you for your support anyone whio knows me knows that my integrity is so important to me. I am a Teacher and always try to make myself beyond reproach as I am constantly under attack from all sorts of people

There have been plenty of situations where seller may get a little greedy(not meaning you) I have seen MANY cards colored by someone other than the original artist, meaning sellers trying to make a few more buck on the sale. Sometimes the seller has been dooped as well by someone else. If you look at it from the artists view, that is our work on that card with our name, I would HATE for someone to color one of my cards and then pass it off as something I did. I have already seen four LOTR cards, among others like Star Wars, that have been colored by others, and very badly as well case in point this card (http://cgi.ebay.com/LOTR-Evolution-Gollum-Sketch-Color_W0QQitemZ6261388662QQcategoryZ60246QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

NOT colored by Otis and the seller bought it from someone else before he tried to sell it on ebay.

I don;t think anyone at scoundrel said flat out YOU did it...no one is sure who colored it. that was the point.

The card that Cat posted is terrible!  How could someone think a real artist would do that to a sketch? :P  The colors aren't even right.

But, back on point.  If Chris says the Walks sketch was pack-pulled, that's good enough for me.  He's been nothing but an honest seller in my dealings with him.  If Russell Walks really did say that he didn't color the sketch, then maybe he honestly doesn't remember doing so.

Yes, that is a terrible Gollum :o

I believe you! I may not be an artist but drawing with the same thing (like pencil) can get old so I'm sure sometimes you'll want to try something new and different :-\

Here is another one the artist did not do any color cards yet this card (http://cgi.ebay.com/LOTR-Evolution-Mouth-of-Sauron-Sketch-Color_W0QQitemZ6261389758QQcategoryZ60246QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) popped up and someone bought it.

Hmm...same seller for both cards.

His mouth and helmet were black, not red and blue :P

apparently russell walks has replied with this comment


quote:
"I guess I could've colored it - If I did, though, it was the only one I colored... Sorry I can't be of more help. All I can tell you is that I honestly don't remember doing it, but I certainly wouldn't swear on it."


I know that i did not do it the artist is not sure so it is either the case that it was the artist or Topps did it

This seems a little odd, if Topps did it them it must be the only one they did because I've never heard anything about that before and if the artist didnt do it then a green crayon just jumped up and decided to do it for him ::)

And wouldnt you notice that when your sending it to Topps?

Perhaps he colored it, didn't like the way it turned out and never thought about it again. I doubt a company like Topps would do it, so the only logical answer is that Mr. Walks did it and simply forgot about it.

it really doen't help me whichever way i have been accused and in my experience that sticks and all i ever did was buy boxes of product this could have been anyone who bought this product

why me

could it be possiblr that it's one of the artists rejects cards, and it slipped into the pack by mistake.

I agree 100% that the artist colored it, but think it was maybe a reject card of his that he thought he trashed

I dont think it was fair that they accused you like that without even asking you about it....  >:() To me it definately looks like the artist did it so I dont know why they fussed over it.

To hell with what they think, we know what you are really like  :-* Although that doesnt really help you with the whole selling-of-the-card unless someone here buys it  ::)

Chris,
I paraphrase:

Great minds talk about ideas

Mediocre minds talk about things

Small minds talk about people.    .............. if you get my drift.

Since this hasn't seem to have been cleared up completely here, the statements on the other board were made AFTER Russ himself was contacted and said he didn't color it. There was no judgment made without checking with Russ first. Since he was the artist who created the card, his word was taken as truth based off the scan on the auction. 

As posted above, after a better scan was provided, Russ made additional comments.

So this was not some "snap decision" - it was an honest attempt to answer questions that someone else brought up.

Gimli and I are all good with each other - I just don't think the situation was accurately detailed here, and want to clear up any possible misconception that may still linger.

Here is where I am confused on this issue do people really think even the artist can remember if they put a very small amount of color on a sketch that they did about 1 1/2 years ago?  Especially if they did 500 for the set?  Now if it was fully colored in that would be different.

I give a lot of credit for asking Mr.  Walks himself, but I don't personally think it adds a heck of a lot of value to the sketch.  It is not like it is an incredible full color one.  I can understand wanting to make sure the sketch is in original form.  However in the end it is for a bidder to decide, if a collector ever isn't sure about the authenticity or a sketch, auto or costume (or the possibility of it being colored in after the fact) don't bid.

And Chris should certainly be given the benefit of the doubt considering his reputation as a seller and great feedback.  If that doesn't count for something to people I know where they could have bid on a HP triple auto :rofl:

Just my 2 cents.

Marleyeds did a good thing he contacted the Artist and got a response. The trouble came from the fact that Artist could not really remember his sketch and because Topps don't keep a record of their sketch cards, the artist words were taken as the truth by some.

MarleyEds and i have discussed this off the board and I do feel he did the correct thing and it was right to tell people what the artist had said.

If we should be angry with anyone then it should be Topps whoshould be protecting it's product, customers and Sellers by archive scanning their sketches. At least we have then a point of reference without relying on the memory of people who have done 1000's of sketch cards in the last few years and then we expect them to remember indivdual cards

I don't think for a second Topps cares that much about what the cards sell for after the fact to worry about keeping a record of the originals.  Also when you are talking about the amount of sketches that go into a Topps product that is a whole differnt ball of wax.  I think from a strictly business perspective they would say the instances of fakes and coloring after the fact are to few for them to bother with archiving sketches.

Come on Chris next thing you know you will expect Artbox to have product information on HP on their website :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: ;)

Well it would be nice

ohh wait there it goes hell just froze over and there goes a flying pig  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

yeah I know it would also mean Topps would have to admit how many boxes of product they made and it would be huge.
when you look at something like family guy most artists did 550 sketches and there were only 13 artists

topps has something like  47 artists doing sketches numbering between 1000 and 80

Just to add that both me and Bogleg have bought many cards from Chris and have never had any problems whatsoever.  I would recommend him to anyone  :).

One interesting thing I have learnt from this is that a very small number of people are colouring sketch cards themselves.  I know this sounds totally naive but it is not something I would ever have considered or looked out for.

I have just read through this thread and the link and some of the comments that have come out are, to me, down right nasty  >:()
To give Chris the "benifit of the doubt" is absolutly wrong. There is no doubt as anyone who has traded with Chris would know. This phrase still implys that there could be something underhand but can't prove it. I can't beleive the brass neck of one poster on the other site saying Chris should apologise for defending himself. The mere fact that the other sites thread title ends in "genuine-?" condems the seller and the card before any discussion or questions asked. It has been said that only a few people would have seen this posting but lets remember, only a few people buy cards and those that Chris would target as customers are the very few that would have seen it.
I have no particular loyalty to Chris or any other card dealer. If he has got what want at a reasonable price, I buy. HOWEVER, I will always pass the time of day with him as he and his lovely assistant are two of the nicest people I've met at the dog-eat-dog world of conventions.

If it is what i'm thinking , I believe you are referring to me. I have known the folks that run the other forum for a very long time and they are all good guys and serious collectors as well. I thought it only fair that since this topic was posted on numerous forums where as the card in question was only posted on the one, that Chris let everyone know it was resolved and there are no hurt feelings. It was a missunderstanding. To let this one thread ruin the reputations of everyone involved is just silly. If anyone has any questions about this auction I think they have been answered. I also don;t think Chris's reputation as a seller has been damaged. Like I said before.. there have been MANY sketches that have been colored by someone OTHER than the artist.  With so many artists on the forum at Scoundrel it is a perfect opportunity to ask. So they have made special threads for cards that may come into question.
So it is not something new and Chris's was not the only card to ever come into question. And no one EVER flat out said Chris did this. Again the two cards I posted in this thread are perfect examples of a seller who was dooped when he bought them. No one ever said Chris was a crook and there were posts about 5  or 6 down where Chris had been contacted. Then the artist was contacted. it was not like folks waited for 5 pages of bashing to go by.  It has been resolved at any rate. There is no need to keep slinging mud.

No, I suppose we are lucky that Chris has on-the-ball friends who can point out threads like this to him so that he can defend himself.

Maybe other sellers aren't so lucky.

since joining the other forum in question  I have now read some posts there and I feel i will never post there again unless it is to defend myself. I just read a comment from an artist and others that has made sure i will never get a commision done by that person or talk to him at a show. Anthony (who I know) the seller in question was called all sorts of abusive names and commented on shamefully just because he would not give a clean scan to some people. Bare in mind that this seller owns the card and until sold has the right to provide what he wishes. There is freedom of speech and then there is just grinding people down for your own ammusement. I wonder if this would have been what would have happened to me if i had not been told what was being said. I am happy for people to find out about dodgy cards (it benefits and protects us all )

 
My lovely assistant is Joy my wife and is almostmorning on the forum  :)

sorry all this happend man...I really am... I am also sorry that you won;t be posting over there...  :(

well I have to say that I have really enjoyed being able to talk to all the artists who post here and I hope that you will continue and we can chat here.what we don't want is someone getting sued for defirmation of charactor, unless people try to get on and understand that sometimes we all don't get what we want, thing can only get worse for the trading card community. I love cards and that is the reason I became I dealer I don't make much money most of the time but i do it cause i love cards and collect myself. 

Chris! I am so sorry this has happened!  :'(
I am really new to sketch cards. Like Sharon, I had no idea that anyone would think of coloring a sketch!!  >:(
But in your case, you were being accused guilty. ??? Totally wrong!  >:()
I do know that everything I have bought from you has been perfect!  ;D You will always have my support 100%!!!!

Again, no one at any point in time accused Chris of coloring the card.  Everyone at SP who has bought from Chris has had excellent experiences dealing with him (including me).  Of all the fake colored cards that have appeared on ebay, more times than nought the person selling it said they "purchased it from a trade show", so anyone who contacts an artist for verification is attempting to do a service for both the bidder and the honest seller.

These fake colored cards are appearing more and more as of late, and even seasoned collectors are buying them thinking they are legit.

of course the only way to make sure that this does not happen so easily is to do what marleyeds has tried to do by keeping a record of the cards. The best ones are Cat Staggs and Cynthia Cummens on this set they provided scans of their cards before they went into the packs. Of course getting scans after the fact is great but still up for abuse. If topps did it then there would not be a problem.

You do realise he was defending you on your card issue, which was resolved within a few hours of the original post, yet it still keeps going and going..

As Roz pointed out the DOC cuts both ways. We really need to relax and move on form this before  some real damage has been inflicted.

As the Sandtrooper says

Move along...move along... ;)

Oh and I scan all my cards because I am compusive like that :P

I think pointing out the fact that you'd never get a commission from someone who DEFENDED you because in another thread he poked fun at "your friend" because he wouldn't provide scans of his cards to MarleyEds for his site which is a HUGE service to fans is a bit overkill, don't you think?

This issue should have died a long time ago.

manners is all i ask for

maybe it is a little too strong and i appologies for that and it was a rash statement which i appologies for wholeheartedly. I appreciate the work that goes into doing these cards but lets be nice even if people are not members on the forums.

Yes I know the dealer, I would call him an aquantance not a friend we talk at shows and that is it. But it was very strong words for nothing really. this will be my last comments on this subject. I do choose where I post carefully I wish to be in a friendly place where opinions are allowed but where moderation is used as well (in terms of tone and language) 

I will however say this one more time Cat and Cynthia have the right approach scan your work keep a record of it. After all if you have pride in your work as CC and CS have you will always want to look back at what you have created.

It's been a a fierce debate over this sketch card and I'm sorry you got the brunt of it Chris. :-\
I think you should be heartened and encouraged that so many people have spoken out in your favour and the input from our 'resident' artists has helped put everything into perspective too.
Nobody would ever accuse you of not appreciating the amount of work involved in these sketch cards Chris - you were a collector before you were ever a dealer and I think it shows - and I hope once the dust has settles you will post on the other forum once again.

I do think each artist creating their own database of their cards is an excellent idea, but I suppose it depends on how well organised each person is and whether they have the time and facilities to do it and to maintain it.
We now know Cat and Cynthia have their own records of the sketches they've done - who else does this?
I'm asking so that we know who to contact directly ... just in case we need this information in the future. ;)

I definitely like that idea.  Maybe we could have a separate topic with links posted.  Like I said I had no idea there was fake sketches on the loose and being so new to sketch cards I am exactly the sort of person who could be caught out.  Even if you couldn't find your exact card on the artists site you could probably see a similar card and compare the style.  Considering I haven't been near a sketch card since a Marvel set waaayyy back I am now getting quite good at spotting a few artists - I now know a Staggs from a Cummens and I can spot a Grant Gould a mile off (he is quickly becoming one of my favourites  ;D).

My site will be updated soon with what LOTRS cards I managed to scan.

That's brilliant.  Could you post a link to your site please  :)

Tom, it would be great you could start your own thread in either the general Trading Card Section or the LOTR section. :)  Will you have scans that aren't available on MarleyEds' site?

Yes a new topic in the LOTR bit would be great.  I mentioned having one specifically for links to the artists sites but wasn't sure what to call it.  What do you reckon on Artists Web Sites?  Not very creative I know but it does what it says on the tin  ;D ;)

Oh I wasn't sure where to put it.  Most of the sketch card discussion has been on LOTR but I wasn't sure.