The Yak Shack Forum

What does everyone think of this now catigory 4 Hurricane?

Here we go again.  Did'nt we get enough of this stuff last year?  I feel really bad for the people on the gulf side.  They just can't get a break.  What city are you in, Mike?

I'm in Tampa so we should get some heavy rain. Its pretty clear right now. I know, I'm so sick of Hurricanes but I'm not scared of them anymor like use to. Usually you'd find me under a sheet clutching my cat right about now :rofl:.   

Yeah - it's peculiar don't you think that Blair and Bush have just confirmed that Climate Change is a long term problem, but if you look at the Hurricane belt it's further south than it has EVER been and Florida was just beaten to death last summer.

The simple fact is that if you heat up a big bowl of water like the world's oceans, and gas like the world's atmosphere all the molecules get very excited and full of energy. Causing more storms and more rain (which in the UK means more flooding), higher tides with larger waves and more atmospheric things like Hurricanes.

LONG TERM PROBLEM MY FOOT. It just means "we were not able to agree any action on this today".

Oh, Roz. ::)  Let's not turn this thread political.  Climates change, the earth changes, there have been PLENTY of other years when hurricanes have battered the Florida coast.  Floridians aren't out screaming  "Aaa!  Global warming!"  If you live where we do, it's just something you deal with. BTW, this is my last (semi) political post.  I like everyone too much to get all worked up about stuff that's not even HP related for goodness sake! :rofl:

Well I'm sorry but unfortunately, like the members, this board is way more than just Harry Potter, but we have labelled up forums especially for it.

Whether they are or not, the people of Florida should most certainly be concerned, and if they aren't then they should do some background reading - trust me. Hurricanes are expected on the coast of Florida, but would you explain why they are hitting Brazil for the first time ever?

Whilst we don't get hurricanes here, just look at our latitude, we do get floods and we are getting them more regularly than ever before, wave heights across the North Atlantic have been increasing non-stop for the past 40 years. This isn't politics Kelly, it's undeliable science.

CO2 is higher than it has been for 100 million years during the middle of the Cretaceous Warm period. Cretaceous climate arose from a combination of factors, with higher atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations (from numerous volcano eruptions) leading to general warming, and other factors, such as increased ocean heat transport, leading to flattening of the latitudinal temperature gradient, in short - we just don't know what we are playing with here. I don't like playing with it either - odd things happened in the cretaceous, all the dinosaurs died out - it has been suggested that was caused by a meteor hitting the earth, or a cluster of meteors but even that is essentially guess work because there's a one huge crater that doesn't even seem to match the right time period (so many scientists do not accept this), on top of this the oceans became devoid of all life - this was called the strangelove ocean. Can you imagine visiting the sea and there being nothing in it - it wouldn't even have the greeny colour that it has because that is caused by plankton (basically the bottom of the food chain in the ocean). In fact, when people talk about the cretaceous they use words like "terminal" - are you hoping NASA and ESA will evacuate all 6 billion of us to another planet by then?

I just don't like playing games with climate... millions if not billions of lives will be lost as hot countries of the world become totally unable to grow any produce, these issues should not be ignored, it's a far bigger threat to us all than a few bombs... but as I say, this is just fact, it can be ignored but it will be to our own detriment.

Should I think like others and say "what does it matter? It's not going to happen in my lifetime?" No, I plan one day to have a family, and perhaps they will have a family, I don't want to leave them an uninhabitable place. It could be as little as 2 generations away.

Ok then.

I'm not that scared of Hurricanes unless its coming right at us. But, I think Hurricans help not prevent. It feels great outside after one. Its not so hot for a few days after one. The Earth is always changing and so is the atmephere (cant spell that word :P you think with how much I love Science ::) ) so of course we're going to see something differenet every year. I dont think will need to leave Planet Earth anytime soon Roz

Sorry we hijacked your thread, Mike. ;)

Lol, Roz always goes indepth

He hee - it feels great after a thunderstorm here ;)


Answer me that again in 10 years time Mike, things will already be very different. Things already are very different than 10 years ago. People keep saying "the seasons are funny" - and other such small observations. Actually, I am building a website with a friend, this won't come to fruition til my PhD is over, but it is going to be about green living, what we each can do - our small contribution CAN help, it's so small scale but the more people make their small contribuition it becomes a much bigger contribution.

Our winters in the UK are already much milder than they were - ice skating on the River Thames has taken place in living memory. Even in my short lifetime I have noticed we get a lot less snow than we used to.

i Agree with Roz, and i'm annoyed about the the no snow  >:()

Hey, Mike.  How did you do last night?  We got an outside band around 4am.  The rain was sideways and sounded like hail.  Thank goodness the kids didn't wake up.  They sleep like rocks. ;D

We did fine. It came in like patches rain, no rain, rain, no rain ::). But it looks like its over for us.

Really pleased to hear the worst of the weather missed you  ;D

Did you have to board up the windows and things just in case?  Or are you a bit in land so you miss the worst of it?  (sorry my geography is tragic :-[ )

No, we didnt board up the windows we just went with it. We are inland but I'm not good with georgraphy so I dont no ither :rofl:.

 :rofl: And you live there  :rofl:  There is an English term that applies perfectly to you at this moment and that is 'You plonker'*  :rofl:

* for more details look up Only Fools and Horses on Google or Jeeves (and don't worry, it is definately a term of endearment)

 :rofl:

 :rofl:  Ok, Mike.  You will have a pop-qiz on this later.  Tampa is about half way up the west coast of Florida.  It's not inland, it's on a bay (gulf coast).  I live in Jacksonville which is on the very north east tip of Florida.  We are on the Atlantic coast.  How was the wind?  It looked like you guys got the eastern edge of the hurricane from the radar, but it's hard for me to judge what's rain and what's just cloud cover.

I dont live near the bay so I dont know where I live all I know is that its in tampa :rofl:

 :rofl: Well, Tampa is a pretty big city!  :rofl:

Yeah it is, it still surprises us :o

If you shared a house with other people and they abused the conditions which enabled you to live together happily and safely, you would do something about it. If they took more than their share of food, smoked cigarettes around non-smokers, didn't clean the toilets, left water running in an unused shower; if they did any of these things to pollute your environment and diminish your way of life, you would do something about it.

The fact that Bush fails to recognise the depth of the US' impact on climate and the environment speaks volumes about his ignorance. Trying to appease him with watered down and goalless legislation is hopeless. Would you take a new law seriously if it were changed every time you said you didn't agree with it? Other nations around the globe shall take the lead and show up the US what it is. Someone should inform Mr Bush that we all live in the same house as he does and we want him to clean up his act.

Oh dear!  >:()  Have you read my posts in the terrorism thread?  :rofl:

Well, no I hadn't. But I just have and all I see is that you are a fan of Bush, which surprises me, but someone has to be or he would not have got elected. What does that have to do with climate change?

I'm sorry that's all you see.

Hi renrutha, nice to see you back again, I hope you don't mind but I have just edited your post, I am perfectly happy for you to voice your views but please try to keep it more to facts than names :)

I think you will find "what goes around comes around" and that long term America will suffer in trade if it remains aloof on the issue and continues to pollute so much. But you have to remember that on the forum we are dealing with indivduals not a nation. As a nation America is said to drive 20 miles to the gallon cars at best and takes jouneys under down the road by car where many Europeans would stroll or take a bike. It has become our culture, not theirs yet. But don't worry, they WILL have to. :) But that is the nation as a whole, I have met some very eco and fit Americans who almost never use cars ;)

Gee Roz:

Who tells you this stuff about America?  20 mpg cars at best?  That's nonsense as there are so many vehicles of all makes that surpass that.  What goes around comes around is a threat no one likes to hear.  How are we going to suffer in trade and who is not going to trade with us?  You do not know business when you make statements like that.  The free market system  does not work like that.  Oh and I am sure every Englishman and European just strolls to get places. Nobody drives.  People here who do not use vehicles are mostly folks living in bigger cities where they can get around using public transportation.  It is not feasible in rural areas especially where I live.  You say don't worry , we will have to - well I disagree as most people here make a very decent living and can afford to purchase just about anything they want to and they do including the ever popular Sport Utility Vehicles which does not get the greatest gas mileage but people feel safe in them compared to small compact cars and if you ever have the misfortune to see a vehicle accident between the two you will see why.  People pay for quality and saftey. 

I am sorry to inform the readers here on The Forum (overseas folks) that President Bush gathered the most votes of any U.S. President in our history in this past election so whether you like him or you do not, those are the facts. 

Sorry if I misunderstand you Ed, but are you saying that just because American are rich, they do not have to worry about the environment? :-\

I agree with Roz. America should develop alternative sources of energy. Hydrogen powered auto, truck, buses. and trains are the ticket. We should stop burning oil and let the new emerging nations like India and China buy all the oil and let them start taking the blame for the world's problems.  Let's hold America to higher standards and grant waivers to the rest of the world. I for one am sick of the entire world blaming every darn problem on America. And we can stop importing all those automobiles as well since we won't be needing to save on gas anymore. And as a side benefit, America would lose all interest in the Middle East and their oil and then the Middle East could sort out their own problems.  America should stop sticking its nose into other peoples problems.  If WWIII starts, wake America up when its over. I would like to remind Europe that the New World (Western Hemisphere) wouldn't be where it is today if it were not for their empire lust. Take a look at how Africa, South America and Asia has fared under their tutelage. Sorry if I went on a rant. And while everyone is blaming America, how about all of you pay your debt from WWII, which I do believe is a little in arrears. Oh, and Mike, the weather in Chicago is unseaonably cool due to the effects of Dennis. It's usually much warmer here than this. However, I find the coolness refreshing.

Yep, completely, I appreciate this is your rant but WE CAN AFFORD to find and cleaner and more efficient sources of fuel and so we should. Did you guys know that CHINA (and I'm sure you look down your noses at them too) but although they are doing their best to develop they are REDUCING their CO2 emmissions on top of that. You have to respect that with a populous as large as theirs.

So it's not true Ed that Hamas do 11 MPG?

Uhhh, is this thread about a hurricane?

Holy crap I just walked into a boiler room.  I haven't caught up on the whole thread yet, but do most people who don't live in the US realize how big it is?

I am not a geography expert so someone please fill in the blanks.  It would take you approx. 22 hours (give or take a couple depending on speed) to drive from the California/Mexico (southern cal border) to the California/Oregon (northern Cal) so basically north to south just California. 

I don't know the starting point in Europe so lets just say Portugal travelling 22 hours by car at 70 MPH heading due East....(please fill in where you would end up)

If memory serves me right when I was in the Netherlands for a couple weeks it only took like 2 1/2 hours to go from on side of Holland to the other.  Travel with the distances and geography of the US just makes it virtually impossible to travel most places on trains or buses with any kind of efficiency, etc.

Basically my point being yes we use more fuel than probably any other country, if we only had to drive 2 hours to see family that lived "across the country" we would probably use the same amount of fuel or energy as Euro nations.

And certainly cultural and lifestyle differences influence that, but I am not going to go into that at this late hour.

Wow the Bush bashing is crazy.  Is he the best president ever (likely not) is he the worst ever (no) but the way people bash him you would think so and with the misinformation of the liberal media most people have been lead to believe that.  Often it seems the more you here people spout their politcal opinions the less informed they are (most of the time not always).

Yep, it's pretty much the same size as Australia now that you mention it.

I'm just shocked America lied to its own people and the world saying a boeing 757 (Flight 77) went into the pentagon.

Hello Sam. It sounds like you have read around a bit - I read a book called the "new pearl harbor" and it was full off all sorts of conspiracies almost to the point of saying that George Bush might as well have flown the planes himself. But you can't believe quite everything in all of the books that you read.

We do get a lot of information on these events and we get so many people's different viewpoints, I have checked with the author and I would like to post a small part of a mail I have been sent in response to this thread... here goes:

"The very term "gas guzzler" is in itself an immotive word in casual conversation here in the US. The vast increase in bigger and heavier vehicles for personal use is totally opposite to what has happened in most of the rest of the world, as fuel costs and emmissions have increased. The problem lies in the average American's way of looking at the world. "If I can afford it I can damn well have it". Americans don't like to be told what's good for them, the irrational defence of the right to bear arms is a perfect example of this thinking process. With gas at $2.20 gallon its still only half what most other nations pay. Take into account the average disposable income and fuel cost has even less impact on individuals. Not until it hurts the pocket book will the US do anything really dramatic about energy consumption. Bush, as any other American President is powerless to change attitudes."

Savage727, if you are hit by an SUV and you are in a small car I agree that you are in the poorer situation, but if most people on the roads drive smaller cars and the safety tests and constraints are very high like they are here in the UK, well I am actually in Scotland, but the safety standards are obviously the same, then things are much better. It's about changing attitudes, but your president should lead the way for your country. Britain still contributes far too much C02 but we are working on it.

Is LPG (liquid petroleum gas) a big thing in other countries? It's a far cheaper fuel alternative in Australia (30-40c/litre) compared to $1.20/litre for petrol. Output and performance is about the same. Actually, LPG does not wear out the engine as much as petrol (complicated scientific reason). My flatmate has a LPG powered car and he says he's saved a mint over the years. Many of Sydney's buses are running on that or natural gas with plans to phase out all petrol run buses in the next few years.

http://www.hitechautogas.com.au/betterfuel.html

Yeah it's really cool, we have lots of buses in Cambridge that run off LPG, but not all yet either. You can get a grant from the government to pay for some of the cost of having your car made into "dual fuel" I must admit I've been considering it for the new car we have just bought, you get the grant as long as your car is suitable for the conversion and is under 2 years old.

I've looked it up and it would cost us £1900 which is a phenomenal amount of money, but based on even our low mileage (around 13,000 a year) we will save £670 per year and the car would be producing 0.74 tonnes of C02 less per year (it currently produces 147 g/mile as a petrol car and that's one of the very lowest on the market here).

What the hell?!!!!  OK listen, I would like to ask everyone to think twice about posting this kind of hurtfull crap.  How dare you?  9/11 is a very raw place on most of our lives to this day.  Some of you are quick to call George Bush a lier and if that's how you really feel, then I can live with that.  It's ok.  But this is NOT ok with me.  If you want to believe in conspiracy theory bull s***, then please keep it to yourself.  Our good people died that day and it's just offensive to me that you are saying America lied about what happened!  How would you feel if I started spouting off about things in your country that I knew nothing about?  Please stop it!And thank you, Renrutha.

Roz,
I am not sure what you are getting at, I think I can guess, but even comparing Oz with the US on a size basis is ok, but Oz only has a little over 20 million people the US has over 265 Million last time I saw stats.  And I don't think that includes illegal aliens. 

I also think Bush gets all the blame, when he really doesn't have as much power as people seem to think, Congress really runs the show for the most part.  If Congress passed an emissions bill the only thing Bush could do about it is veto it.  So Bush isn't the one who should be getting slammed for it as much as the US Congress.  Now if you want to start talking about Iraq that may be a little different, but please don't go there :P

We should have a seperate section for politics as I could know better than to read any posts in it.

Hi FTY:

No I am not saying that just because Americans are rich that we do not have to worry about the environment.  Many here do but their efforts are not reported in the International Press.  I do not know why.

Roz:

I think you meant to say Hummers not Hamas which is a terrorist group in Lebanon!  Yes they get poor gas mileage but people here love them.  It costs in excess of $52,000 for one so it is not your average American's vehicle of choice.

Samwise:

Before you make such a godforsaken stupid statement like you did about the Pentagon attack being fabricated know what you are talking about or keep your mouth shut.  I had 5 friends of mine killed in that attack and I will not let you or anyone tarnish their loss.  You owe me and every American an apology.  I am ashamed of you and thought you had more intelligence. 

No literally Becks I mean it's the same size, people need to travel across it - yes the population is mostly along the coast but they are still very spread out.


Must be the accent. Anyway, I think you'll find you can get that down to $32k when you've taken advantage of the latest  tax loophole for high earners.

At least it's not everyone's favourite car (tank) though.

I wasn't going to put a posting on here; I thought it had gone right off the subject of weather.  But I have to say I find the above comment completely out of order.

As I have stated in other topics I am a great supporter of America.  But what debt do I owe them for WWII, any more say than my grandparents?  As I recall from my history books Great Britain entered the war and then the USA JOINED us to fight an evil that had to be stopped.  I do not recall America fighting the Nazi's single handedly.  It was a colaboration of nations who wanted to stop Hitler.  All nations involved suffered terrible losses; Britain, Australia, New Zealand, Canada AND America to name but a few. Not forgetting Germany themselves.

I am totally shocked that an American on this board can truly believe that their country alone stopped the Nazi threat and the rest of the world owes them a debt of gratitude.  I can only hope that this does not reflect how Americans in general feel.

And just to confirm most Britains realise the mistakes that were made during the days of 'their empire lust'.  It is nothing to be proud of, but like most periods in history has lessons that can be learnt.  ALL countries have episodes in their past that they would rather forget.  The true test comes when they choose not to forget these but to grow into better people despite/because of them.

Oh dear... whatever happened to poor Hurricane Dennis - he thought that he had a whole topic devoted to him :-\

I think for the sake of everyone's tempers and feelings, we should declare this topic closed.