Hurricane Dennis

[Guest]

[grecopa]

  Well, Tampa is a pretty big city! 

[EmmasOneandOnly]

Yeah it is, it still surprises us

[renrutha]

If you shared a house with other people and they abused the conditions which enabled you to live together happily and safely, you would do something about it. If they took more than their share of food, smoked cigarettes around non-smokers, didn't clean the toilets, left water running in an unused shower; if they did any of these things to pollute your environment and diminish your way of life, you would do something about it.

The fact that Bush fails to recognise the depth of the US' impact on climate and the environment speaks volumes about his ignorance. Trying to appease him with watered down and goalless legislation is hopeless. Would you take a new law seriously if it were changed every time you said you didn't agree with it? Other nations around the globe shall take the lead and show up the US what it is. Someone should inform Mr Bush that we all live in the same house as he does and we want him to clean up his act.

[grecopa]

Oh dear!    Have you read my posts in the terrorism thread? 

[renrutha]

Well, no I hadn't. But I just have and all I see is that you are a fan of Bush, which surprises me, but someone has to be or he would not have got elected. What does that have to do with climate change?

[grecopa]

I'm sorry that's all you see.

[Roz]

Hi renrutha, nice to see you back again, I hope you don't mind but I have just edited your post, I am perfectly happy for you to voice your views but please try to keep it more to facts than names

I think you will find "what goes around comes around" and that long term America will suffer in trade if it remains aloof on the issue and continues to pollute so much. But you have to remember that on the forum we are dealing with indivduals not a nation. As a nation America is said to drive 20 miles to the gallon cars at best and takes jouneys under down the road by car where many Europeans would stroll or take a bike. It has become our culture, not theirs yet. But don't worry, they WILL have to. But that is the nation as a whole, I have met some very eco and fit Americans who almost never use cars

[savage727]

Gee Roz:

Who tells you this stuff about America?  20 mpg cars at best?  That's nonsense as there are so many vehicles of all makes that surpass that.  What goes around comes around is a threat no one likes to hear.  How are we going to suffer in trade and who is not going to trade with us?  You do not know business when you make statements like that.  The free market system  does not work like that.  Oh and I am sure every Englishman and European just strolls to get places. Nobody drives.  People here who do not use vehicles are mostly folks living in bigger cities where they can get around using public transportation.  It is not feasible in rural areas especially where I live.  You say don't worry , we will have to - well I disagree as most people here make a very decent living and can afford to purchase just about anything they want to and they do including the ever popular Sport Utility Vehicles which does not get the greatest gas mileage but people feel safe in them compared to small compact cars and if you ever have the misfortune to see a vehicle accident between the two you will see why.  People pay for quality and saftey. 

I am sorry to inform the readers here on The Forum (overseas folks) that President Bush gathered the most votes of any U.S. President in our history in this past election so whether you like him or you do not, those are the facts. 

[ferdinand_the_yak]

You say don't worry , we will have to - well I disagree as most people here make a very decent living and can afford to purchase just about anything they want to and they do including the ever popular Sport Utility Vehicles which does not get the greatest gas mileage but people feel safe in them compared to small compact cars and if you ever have the misfortune to see a vehicle accident between the two you will see why. People pay for quality and saftey.

I am sorry to inform the readers here on The Forum (overseas folks) that President Bush gathered the most votes of any U.S. President in our history in this past election so whether you like him or you do not, those are the facts.

Sorry if I misunderstand you Ed, but are you saying that just because American are rich, they do not have to worry about the environment?

[LikORish-Spider]

I agree with Roz. America should develop alternative sources of energy. Hydrogen powered auto, truck, buses. and trains are the ticket. We should stop burning oil and let the new emerging nations like India and China buy all the oil and let them start taking the blame for the world's problems.  Let's hold America to higher standards and grant waivers to the rest of the world. I for one am sick of the entire world blaming every darn problem on America. And we can stop importing all those automobiles as well since we won't be needing to save on gas anymore. And as a side benefit, America would lose all interest in the Middle East and their oil and then the Middle East could sort out their own problems.  America should stop sticking its nose into other peoples problems.  If WWIII starts, wake America up when its over. I would like to remind Europe that the New World (Western Hemisphere) wouldn't be where it is today if it were not for their empire lust. Take a look at how Africa, South America and Asia has fared under their tutelage. Sorry if I went on a rant. And while everyone is blaming America, how about all of you pay your debt from WWII, which I do believe is a little in arrears. Oh, and Mike, the weather in Chicago is unseaonably cool due to the effects of Dennis. It's usually much warmer here than this. However, I find the coolness refreshing.

[Roz]

Yep, completely, I appreciate this is your rant but WE CAN AFFORD to find and cleaner and more efficient sources of fuel and so we should. Did you guys know that CHINA (and I'm sure you look down your noses at them too) but although they are doing their best to develop they are REDUCING their CO2 emmissions on top of that. You have to respect that with a populous as large as theirs.

So it's not true Ed that Hamas do 11 MPG?

[beckham1]

Uhhh, is this thread about a hurricane?

Holy crap I just walked into a boiler room.  I haven't caught up on the whole thread yet, but do most people who don't live in the US realize how big it is?

I am not a geography expert so someone please fill in the blanks.  It would take you approx. 22 hours (give or take a couple depending on speed) to drive from the California/Mexico (southern cal border) to the California/Oregon (northern Cal) so basically north to south just California. 

I don't know the starting point in Europe so lets just say Portugal travelling 22 hours by car at 70 MPH heading due East....(please fill in where you would end up)

If memory serves me right when I was in the Netherlands for a couple weeks it only took like 2 1/2 hours to go from on side of Holland to the other.  Travel with the distances and geography of the US just makes it virtually impossible to travel most places on trains or buses with any kind of efficiency, etc.

Basically my point being yes we use more fuel than probably any other country, if we only had to drive 2 hours to see family that lived "across the country" we would probably use the same amount of fuel or energy as Euro nations.

And certainly cultural and lifestyle differences influence that, but I am not going to go into that at this late hour.

Wow the Bush bashing is crazy.  Is he the best president ever (likely not) is he the worst ever (no) but the way people bash him you would think so and with the misinformation of the liberal media most people have been lead to believe that.  Often it seems the more you here people spout their politcal opinions the less informed they are (most of the time not always).

[Roz]

Yep, it's pretty much the same size as Australia now that you mention it.

[samwise16]

I'm just shocked America lied to its own people and the world saying a boeing 757 (Flight 77) went into the pentagon.

[renrutha]

Hello Sam. It sounds like you have read around a bit - I read a book called the "new pearl harbor" and it was full off all sorts of conspiracies almost to the point of saying that George Bush might as well have flown the planes himself. But you can't believe quite everything in all of the books that you read.

We do get a lot of information on these events and we get so many people's different viewpoints, I have checked with the author and I would like to post a small part of a mail I have been sent in response to this thread... here goes:

"The very term "gas guzzler" is in itself an immotive word in casual conversation here in the US. The vast increase in bigger and heavier vehicles for personal use is totally opposite to what has happened in most of the rest of the world, as fuel costs and emmissions have increased. The problem lies in the average American's way of looking at the world. "If I can afford it I can damn well have it". Americans don't like to be told what's good for them, the irrational defence of the right to bear arms is a perfect example of this thinking process. With gas at $2.20 gallon its still only half what most other nations pay. Take into account the average disposable income and fuel cost has even less impact on individuals. Not until it hurts the pocket book will the US do anything really dramatic about energy consumption. Bush, as any other American President is powerless to change attitudes."

Savage727, if you are hit by an SUV and you are in a small car I agree that you are in the poorer situation, but if most people on the roads drive smaller cars and the safety tests and constraints are very high like they are here in the UK, well I am actually in Scotland, but the safety standards are obviously the same, then things are much better. It's about changing attitudes, but your president should lead the way for your country. Britain still contributes far too much C02 but we are working on it.

[ferdinand_the_yak]

Is LPG (liquid petroleum gas) a big thing in other countries? It's a far cheaper fuel alternative in Australia (30-40c/litre) compared to $1.20/litre for petrol. Output and performance is about the same. Actually, LPG does not wear out the engine as much as petrol (complicated scientific reason). My flatmate has a LPG powered car and he says he's saved a mint over the years. Many of Sydney's buses are running on that or natural gas with plans to phase out all petrol run buses in the next few years.

http://www.hitechautogas.com.au/betterfuel.html

[Roz]

Yeah it's really cool, we have lots of buses in Cambridge that run off LPG, but not all yet either. You can get a grant from the government to pay for some of the cost of having your car made into "dual fuel" I must admit I've been considering it for the new car we have just bought, you get the grant as long as your car is suitable for the conversion and is under 2 years old.

I've looked it up and it would cost us £1900 which is a phenomenal amount of money, but based on even our low mileage (around 13,000 a year) we will save £670 per year and the car would be producing 0.74 tonnes of C02 less per year (it currently produces 147 g/mile as a petrol car and that's one of the very lowest on the market here).

[grecopa]

I'm just shocked America lied to its own people and the world saying a boeing 757 (Flight 77) went into the pentagon.

What the hell?!!!!  OK listen, I would like to ask everyone to think twice about posting this kind of hurtfull crap.  How dare you?  9/11 is a very raw place on most of our lives to this day.  Some of you are quick to call George Bush a lier and if that's how you really feel, then I can live with that.  It's ok.  But this is NOT ok with me.  If you want to believe in conspiracy theory bull s***, then please keep it to yourself.  Our good people died that day and it's just offensive to me that you are saying America lied about what happened!  How would you feel if I started spouting off about things in your country that I knew nothing about?  Please stop it!

Hello Sam. It sounds like you have read around a bit - I read a book called the "new pearl harbor" and it was full off all sorts of conspiracies almost to the point of saying that George Bush might as well have flown the planes himself. But you can't believe quite everything in all of the books that you read.

And thank you, Renrutha.

[beckham1]

Yep, it's pretty much the same size as Australia now that you mention it.

Roz,
I am not sure what you are getting at, I think I can guess, but even comparing Oz with the US on a size basis is ok, but Oz only has a little over 20 million people the US has over 265 Million last time I saw stats.  And I don't think that includes illegal aliens. 

I also think Bush gets all the blame, when he really doesn't have as much power as people seem to think, Congress really runs the show for the most part.  If Congress passed an emissions bill the only thing Bush could do about it is veto it.  So Bush isn't the one who should be getting slammed for it as much as the US Congress.  Now if you want to start talking about Iraq that may be a little different, but please don't go there

We should have a seperate section for politics as I could know better than to read any posts in it.

[savage727]

Hi FTY:

No I am not saying that just because Americans are rich that we do not have to worry about the environment.  Many here do but their efforts are not reported in the International Press.  I do not know why.

Roz:

I think you meant to say Hummers not Hamas which is a terrorist group in Lebanon!  Yes they get poor gas mileage but people here love them.  It costs in excess of $52,000 for one so it is not your average American's vehicle of choice.

Samwise:

Before you make such a godforsaken stupid statement like you did about the Pentagon attack being fabricated know what you are talking about or keep your mouth shut.  I had 5 friends of mine killed in that attack and I will not let you or anyone tarnish their loss.  You owe me and every American an apology.  I am ashamed of you and thought you had more intelligence.