Money Orders

[Guest]

[Fizzingwizbee63]

Hello,

I have a customer who wants to pay for an item with a Money Order.
Some time ago Ebay changed their policy, prohibiting that form of payment.
When I informed the customer that I could not accept a money order due to Ebay policy, they insisted that it is not a violation.

Does anyone remember when the change took place, or if I am wrong and it never happened?

Please Help

[Bogleg]

I think the policy is that you can list Paypal as the only form of payment but it is up to you what you put in the description as to other methods of pay.

[terryweasley]

This is what is listed on the current How You Pay on ebay page.

What payment method should I use?
How you pay for items you buy on eBay depends on the payment options offered by the seller. Before you bid, read the item description carefully to learn what kinds of payments the seller accepts. 

Cash, checks, and other nonsecure methods aren't allowed for most eBay purchases, with a few exceptions.

All sellers offer at least one of the approved electronic payment methods—PayPal, ProPay, Moneybookers, or Paymate—or they can accept credit card payments through their merchant credit card account. (When you pay with a credit card to the seller's merchant account using the Pay Now button, your payment is securely processed without the seller seeing your credit card number.)

From the way I read it it's up to you if you want to accept a money order or not.  Did you specify certain payment options in your listing?

[Fizzingwizbee63]

Hi,
I did not specify in the ad, however under the form of payment portion of my listing only Paypal is available as a sorce of payment.
 
I found the following information on the Accepted Payments Page


Accepted Payments Policy


Our Accepted Payments policy helps ensure that buyers and sellers on eBay are offered safe, convenient payment options.

For most categories, sellers need to offer one or more of the following electronic payment choices:

PayPal

ProPay

Moneybookers

Paymate

Credit card or debit card processed through the seller's Internet merchant account

Sellers may also offer to accept payment upon pickup.


Payment methods not allowed on eBay:

For most categories, sellers can't ask buyers to:

Send cash through the mail

Send cash or money orders through instant, point-to-point cash transfer services (that are not banks) such as Western Union or MoneyGram

Mail checks or money orders (except for items in categories specifically permitted below)

Pay through bank-to-bank transfers (except for items in categories specifically permitted below)

Pay by "topping off" a seller's prepaid credit or debit card

Pay using online or other payment methods not specifically permitted in this policy

Payment method exceptions

These payment methods may be used only in the listing categories described below:

Bank-to-bank transfers (also known as bank wire transfers and bank cash transfers)

Checks

Money orders

Online payment services: Allpay.net, cash2india, CertaPay, Checkfree.com, hyperwallet.com, Nochex.com, Ozpay.biz, XOOM

Payment upon pickup

Listing categories:

Motors > Boats

Motors > Cars & Trucks

Motors > Motorcycles

Motors > Powersports

Motors > Other Vehicles & Trailers

Motors > Parts & Accessories > Automotive Tools > Shop Equipment > Air Compressors

Motors > Parts & Accessories > Automotive Tools > Shop Equipment > Brake Lathes

Motors > Parts & Accessories > Automotive Tools > Shop Equipment > Frame Machines

Motors > Parts & Accessories > Automotive Tools > Shop Equipment > Lifts / Hoists / Jacks

Motors > Parts & Accessories > Automotive Tools > Shop Equipment > Paint Booths

Motors > Parts & Accessories > Automotive Tools > Shop Equipment > Tire Changers / Wheel Balancers

Motors > Parts & Accessories > Aviation Parts > Engines

Motors > Parts & Accessories > Car & Truck Parts > Engines & Components

Motors > Parts & Accessories > Motorcycle Parts > American > Engines & Components

Motors > Parts & Accessories > Racing Parts > Auto Racing Parts > Engine & Components

Motors > Parts & Accessories > Salvage Parts Cars

Motors > Parts & Accessories > Vintage Car & Truck Parts > Engines & Components

Business & Industrial > Agriculture & Forestry > Farm Implements & Attachments

Business & Industrial > Agriculture & Forestry > Tractors & Farm Machinery

Business & Industrial > Construction > Buildings, Modular & Pre-Fab

Business & Industrial > Construction > Heavy Equip. Parts & Manuals

Business & Industrial > Construction > Heavy Equipment, Trailers

Business & Industrial > Healthcare, Lab & Life Science > Imaging & Aesthetics Equipment

Business & Industrial > Industrial Supply & MRO > Cleaning Equipment & Supplies > Sweepers & Scrubbers

Business & Industrial > Industrial Supply& MRO > Fork Lifts & Other Lifts

Business & Industrial > Industrial Supply & MRO > HVAC > HVAC Units

Business & Industrial > Manufacturing & Metalworking > Manufacturing Equipment

Business & Industrial > Manufacturing & Metalworking > Metalworking Equipment

Business & Industrial > Manufacturing & Metalworking > Woodworking > Equipment & Machinery

Business & Industrial > Printing & Graphic Arts > Bindery & Finishing Equipment

Business & Industrial > Printing & Graphic Arts > Commercial Printing Presses

Business & Industrial > Printing & Graphic Arts > Plotters, Wide Format Printing

Business & Industrial > Restaurant & Catering > Commercial Kitchen Equipment > Cooking & Warming Equipment > Ovens & Ranges

Business & Industrial > Restaurant & Catering > Concession Trailers & Carts > Concession Trailers

Business & Industrial > Restaurant & Catering > Refrigeration & Ice Machines

Real Estate

Everything Else > Adults Only



Communicating about payment methods

Sellers need to say in their listing specifically which payment methods they accepts and only offer payment methods approved by eBay. Sellers aren't allowed to:

Ask buyers to contact them for additional payment methods

Offer a payment method to some buyers and not to others

Discourage buyers from using any payment method the seller specified in the listing

Ask buyers to pay using a method not mentioned in the listing.

This applies to all transaction-related correspondence between a seller and buyer as well as the listings.

Violation consequences

Violation of the Accepted Payments policy can result in actions such as: 

Listing cancellation

Forfeit of eBay fees on canceled listings

Limits on account privileges

Loss of PowerSeller status

Account suspension


It looks like there are acceptions, but trading cards do not seem to be on this list. The above listed threats for violations, is what concerns me.
I hate getting in trouble

[allender]

It seems pretty clear, but note that it starts out by saying "sellers can't ask buyers" to use money orders for trading cards (except adult oriented). This is from the "Rules for Sellers" section. Previously, sellers weren't prohibited from accepting money orders if asked, but they weren't allowed to list that option. Now, they use the words "not allowed" even in the "Rules for Buyers" section.

But then they muddle things by saying, "Sellers can’t require you to pay using payment methods that aren’t allowed on eBay." ... Which sort of implies that you could still request it, as a buyer. Then they spend time talking about how reliable checks, money orders, and wire transfers are; and remind the buyer that the seller will wait for the funds to clear before sending the item.

I can't fully understand why M.O.s should be prohibited, if the buyer is eager and the seller is willing. I vaguely recall reading that it's all in the name of protecting the seller from negative feedback, which can happen whenever payment is sent through the mail and there's a dispute about whether it arrived.

More likely, it protects eBay from having to devote manpower to mediating disputes. So there must have been a hefty number of problems? Perhaps there was a core of dishonest sellers who would cash money orders and claim non-payment, knowing it's tougher to track who cashed a money order versus a check. ("While fraud is rare, money is very difficult to recover when it occurs.")

We don't need to mention that eBay would just as soon have all methods of payment other than PayPal disappear from the Earth.

There's some Google debris that shows it's been discussed on the eBay boards, but they are down at the moment.

[Fizzingwizbee63]

Received a message from the buyer this morning.
I sent them a copy of the policy listed, and offered to mutually withdraw the transaction.

They replied,  " In your graciousness I would like to wthdraw, and thanks! "

So, I sent the withdrawl, with an apology for the inconvience.
However I feel like I was apologizing for something that is beyond my control.
Also received notice from Ebay this morning, that another policy change will take effect in Sept.

[kbmum]

Oh yes, new eBay rules.

Optional buyer charges for shipping insurance removed
The insurance option creates the perception that buyers need to purchase shipping insurance as a protection on eBay, an experience they're not accustomed to on other ecommerce sites. In fact, sellers have always been responsible for their items until they arrive safely in their customers' hands. That's why shipping insurance will no longer be included in the purchase flow as either an option or requirement for buyers.

Of course you can choose to purchase insurance on shipments, but not ask buyers to buy insurance separately. In some categories like Antiques, Collectibles, and Jewelry, shipping insurance for sellers is essential. When appropriate, you can include the cost of insurance in your item or shipping price.

Buyer Protection
Buyers and sellers share the responsibility for making sure purchases facilitated by eBay are exciting, rewarding, and hassle-free. We strongly encourage buyers to work with sellers before opening a claim relating to a purchase. Buyers and sellers agree to follow the requirements of the eBay Buyer Protection Policy with respect to claims. eBay Buyer Protection covers only claims filed in accordance with the eBay Buyer Protection Policy, not claims filed with PayPal. We may suspend the eBay Buyer Protection Policy without notice if we suspect abuse or interference with the proper working of the program.

We require eBay sellers to comply with our resolution process. Sellers permit us to make a final decision, in our sole discretion, on any claim that a buyer files with eBay under the eBay Buyer Protection Policy. If we resolve a dispute in the buyer's favor, we will refund the buyer for the cost of the item and the original shipping, and we will require the seller to reimburse us for the refund. Without limiting the foregoing, sellers may not have to pay a reimbursement for an eBay claim if they provide the documentation (for example, delivery confirmation or proof that the item was as described) indicated in the eBay Buyer Protection Policy.

    * Sellers must have a reimbursement method on file with eBay.
    *For transactions paid with PayPal, sellers agree to allow us to remove funds from their PayPal accounts to reimburse buyers. Sellers may change this reimbursement method by contacting eBay.
    *When there are insufficient funds in PayPal accounts, transactions are not paid with PayPal, or when PayPal is not the reimbursement method of a seller, we will require another reimbursement method.

For future claims where the seller is found at fault, we will notify the seller and continue to charge the sellers preferred method for any reimbursements made under the eBay Buyer Protection Policy. Changing a reimbursement method will not affect eBay's use of a payment method on file for other purposes (such as payment of your eBay fees). If sellers do not provide eBay with a valid reimbursement method, we may collect amounts owed using other collection mechanisms, including retaining collection agencies. We may also suspend or restrict sellers from trading on our sites until payment is made.

[Fizzingwizbee63]

Even if a package is insured by the USPS, the amount of insurance is not guarenteed. 

If you purchase insurance for a item for the amount the item sells for, and it is lost by said Postal service, it is the USPS who decides how much the item is worth as reimbursment to the seller.

So the seller must reimburse the entire purchase price to the buyer, and the seller is at the mercy of the USPS's evalauation as to how much money is to be returned.

In the case of trading card VARIANTS, this can be particularly disasterous.

I feel like if you can produce to the USPS Postal Service proof of the selling price, and that it matches the amount of insurance purchased for that item, that is the amount that should be paid back to the shipper.

I recently sold a card, which was shipped with Insurance and Delivery Confirmation, the buyer did not recieve the card, and the Post Office only has a record of it being accepted at the location I shipped from.

I refunded the buyer the full purchase price of the card plus the shipping cost, and I had to file a claim with the USPS. I have not yet received payment on the claim, but I can quarantee that I will not be recieving the full amount back.

[allender]

Optional buyer charges for shipping insurance removed
The insurance option creates the perception that buyers need to purchase shipping insurance as a protection on eBay, an experience they're not accustomed to on other ecommerce sites. In fact, sellers have always been responsible for their items until they arrive safely in their customers' hands. That's why shipping insurance will no longer be included in the purchase flow as either an option or requirement for buyers. ... When appropriate, you can include the cost of insurance in your item or shipping price.

What's wrong with this picture? This is the same company that allows only "trackable" methods of shipment if you use their e-shipping service ... because they have maintained that sellers have *not* "always been responsible for their items until they arrive safely." Some of the "always" has merely been built into their "our word is law" dispute resolution process, which tends to assume that an item didn't arrive safely unless it was continuously filmed during its journey and all receiving buyers have been totally honest.

So though I'm essentially a buyer, not a seller, I feel the pain and frustration about the implications. Though, it won't necessarily make a lot of difference except to have the "add insurance" tick box disappear on some of the auction processing services.

The impacts may be complicated or unpredictable, and I'm fuzzy on what might happen. What I see already:

Some sellers already quote their standard shipping costs with insurance included, others quote lower shipping and require insurance. The new policy would make this less confusing because the second group becomes a part of the first group.

I almost never pay for an auction immediately if the shipping costs include insurance or are fairly high without explanation. Frequently a seller will reduce the shipping costs in the invoice versus what is shown in the initial checkout screen, or even refund part of the shipping through PayPal after I've paid. Of course, some of this service comes from sellers who recognize me as a regular customer. So I wait a few days to see if an invoice is going to be issued.

My point is, the need for insurance to protect a seller depends heavily on the character and feedback status of the buyer.

I see real confusion for some buying situations that I encounter frequently with cards: multiple auction wins from the same seller. Some sellers now require insurance only if the total purchase exceeds a fixed amount. This seems very reasonable to me as a buyer ... a seller can "self-insure" for an occasional lost shipment for a single $10 item, but it's a lot more of a risk for five $10 items.  One hypothetical example:

(1) Seller lists individual $10 items with 'standard' shipping rate of $4.63 but offers combined shipping of $0.50 for each additional item.

(2) Seller requires insurance for total orders above $30 (before shipping charges). The transaction is international, so assume $12 extra for a truly insured method of shipping.

Right now that seller's rules are open, fair, and understandable. Seller offers combined shipping discounts but insures big purchases. You can see exactly what's going on. Under the new eBay policy, you don't really know what you'll be paying for shipping until you get an invoice that is hand-adjusted by the seller, or that hides some of the components.

Some sellers offer less of a per-item discount for combined shipping, but when the combination reaches a certain $ level, they pay for insurance without being asked.

Can the new policy end up in the same place as reasonable ecommerce allowed before? I suspect that we will see a net increase in shipping charges. The default rates will go up, and the average seller will find it too complicated to make case-by-case adjustments. Ebay sales for lower-cost items will become even less attractive, and they've been almost priced out of the eBay market already. Buyers will have to watch for invoices instead of relying on eBay Checkout to be the 'final answer.' Sellers will profit from buyers who aren't watching carefully, but perhaps this will tend to reduce the average first-item standard charges.

It's silly to pretend that the quoted shipping rates don't already have a "self-insurance" component. Ebay used to say that this had to be built into the starting price of the item, but at least their new words imply that it can be appropriate to include it in the standard shipping rate. This is an *auction* site. A seller gets sales by appearing to be lower total cost. The "1-cent CD BIN" market with $10 non-discountable shipping proved how that worked until the "sort by price including shipping" was made the default. Now, auction finishing prices will tend to *look* more expensive.

Up to now, when I bid on a bunch of items, I tend to assume (at first) that I'm going to win multiple items from the seller, and don't shy away when I see high default shipping costs. I assume that the seller will adjust things before Checkout and I might not be a repeat bidder if he doesn't. I'm not adverse to asking for a new invoice before paying, either. But I've been around the circle quite a few times by now, and I can see more complaints coming from the hoi polloi about how quoted shipping costs have magically started increasing, and then expect to see eBay impose new rules to deal with perceived abuse.

So it all *sounds* good, but every time I think about it, it causes more headaches for sellers. I'd rather let sellers be totally up-front about how they deal with shipping and self-insurance.

I guess that a better eBay policy would have been to stop after eliminating the "optional insurance" button if they really thought this was misleading buyers. (I never opted for it.) More sellers will now include insurance in their base shipping. Saying that sellers can include it in the item price is the same as saying sellers can choose to eat the charges. Maybe this puts eBay closer to some of the policies of competitors like Amazon, in which case it was sort of inevitable.

After all that I'm still confused.

[kbmum]

From eBay's standpoint, of course it wants sellers to include the cost of insurance in the base price of the item, just like it wants sellers to offer free shipping (with the cost of shipping included in the base price).  That way, eBay can collect fees on the shipping cost of an item and possibly on the listing fees (if the cost of shipping and insurance bump the item into a higher fee category).  This is just another way that eBay increases fees without appearing to do so.  I still can't believe that the U.S. government hasn't gone after eBay for forcing buyers to pay only via PayPal or a seller's internet merchant credit card account.

On a happier note, there will be positive changes with the DSR system.  Instead of penalizing sellers for not maintaining high star ratings, eBay will now keep track of the numbers of 1 and 2 ratings sellers receive, which will help it weed out the truly bad sellers.