The Dodgy auctions of [toysngiftsdirect] & [dd_gifts_n_collectables]

[Guest]

[diagonhp]

It would be hard for Nienna to say - there's an auction for a GOF box that looks dodgy BUT I'm not going to tell you who the seller is. What would be the point?

To address your earlier comment about pack searching - I would NEVER buy a box where the seller says "oh I opened one pack randomly and decided to sell the rest of the packs. 99.9% of the time they have cherry picked the prop/costume card. With the exception of one or two reputable sellers I have dealt with, I'll not even buy loose boxes anymore, given the prevalence of case clusters. People who buy these cherry picked boxes are generally new to the hobby and don't know too much about these practices which is why we give our members a heads up when we see it occuring.

What I think is unfair is the seller neglecting to mention that they are selling an unsealed box (how else can you get 23 packs in a box?). If you ask me, THAT is unfair. And of course you (or anyone) would not get as high a price if they stated outright that they were selling sealed packs. Which may be why this seller conveniently neglected to mention this in their auction.

It seems that you know this seller so if you would like to direct him/her to this forum to explain why they have listed these auctions several times they can perhaps explain their actions.

well i would say you should also post this seller on here regarding the other GOF BOX you mention

there is every point of making it known to others as nienna has already mentioned one person

so who is selling the GOF BOX please

and at least the seller put there where only 23  packs and not 24

[ferdinand_the_yak]

That was used as an example. I could have used GOF/LOTR/X Files/Buffy etc.

Point being, false advertising by omission is still false advertising. As some one who has collected Potter from the very beginning, I know there are 24 packs in a full box. New collectors may not know this. For them, 23 packs IS a sealed box.

[sue]

That was used as an example. I could have used GOF/LOTR/X Files/Buffy etc.

Point being, false advertising by omission is still false advertising. As some one who has collected Potter from the very beginning, I know there are 24 packs in a full box. New collectors may not know this. For them, 23 packs IS a sealed box.

have to just pop in again    but i`ll admit it  , i was watching this sellers things and thought 100% it was a full factory sealed box, who reads the small print when theres a big picture of a new box, lol  .
Just have to ask diagonhp, is the seller you?

[stoney]

That was used as an example. I could have used GOF/LOTR/X Files/Buffy etc.

Point being, false advertising by omission is still false advertising. As some one who has collected Potter from the very beginning, I know there are 24 packs in a full box. New collectors may not know this. For them, 23 packs IS a sealed box.

This was the main reason that i contacted the seller. Not because i am a new to collecting HP cards but because i had never seen this seller selling boxes before so i thought that he/she might be new to selling cards and had made a mistake when typing the item description.
I know that the seller did put that there were 23 packs in the box but only people who know how many there should be will know that there is one missing. To the new collector who doesn't know they might think that this is the number of packs in a box because it doesn't state otherwise. It should of been stated in the auction that there are supposed to be 24 but the box had been opened.

To address your earlier comment about pack searching - I would NEVER buy a box where the seller says "oh I opened one pack randomly and decided to sell the rest of the packs. 99.9% of the time they have cherry picked the prop/costume card. With the exception of one or two reputable sellers I have dealt with, I'll not even buy loose boxes anymore, given the prevalence of case clusters. People who buy these cherry picked boxes are generally new to the hobby and don't know too much about these practices which is why we give our members a heads up when we see it occuring.

What I think is unfair is the seller neglecting to mention that they are selling an unsealed box (how else can you get 23 packs in a box?). If you ask me, THAT is unfair. And of course you (or anyone) would not get as high a price if they stated outright that they were selling sealed packs. Which may be why this seller conveniently neglected to mention this in their auction.

I think that this was the main reason i opted out of buying the box. After finding out that the box had been opened and one of the packets had been opened, the cherry picking idea started to go round in my head. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that this was definitely what the seller had done but i don't understand why you would open one packet and not open them all (if it had been me they would would of all been open inside 5 mins ). You would surely either open them all or leave the box as it is to sell on. If you are going to end up selling a box of 23 packs anyway then you might as well just leave the box sealed, sell all 24 packs, attract a lot more buyers and get more money for it.
I DO hope that whoever has bought the GOF box did indeed get a genuine box with only one packet taken from the top and that they do get a costume, auto or prop and that the seller is genuine but finding out that info that the box had been opened along with one packet was enough to sow seeds of doubt in my mind and stop me from buying.

[LikORish-Spider]

you have now given out enough information to enable the whole of the world to become dishonest people by opening their boxes and checking before reselling this is unfair to those who have bought boxes and only opened certain boxes and just resold the ones they no longer wish to keep

regardless of wheather they are factory sealed or not

Why would anyone open a box to check it? Check it for what? A bar of gold? All I can say is that if this "dishonest" shoe (a shame if it does) fits anyone, let them wear it. Full disclosure in the item description removes all doubt.
And by the way, the whole of the world needs to know how they can be ripped off. If in doubt about an auction description, ask the seller. If the seller doesn't answer or is evasive, by all means skip the item. And by the way, the news is full of stories of how banks are robbed. Are you inclined to rob a bank because you know how, is the whole so inclined?
And, you asked how. If you didn't want an answer, why ask? Or was it a rhetorical question?

[diagonhp]

i just want to let everybody know that yes we need to know the facts

i dont want to fall out with you guys i was just giving my opinion can we drop this bad subject now and

like lik o rish-spider said"

If in doubt about an auction description, ask the seller.
 If the seller doesn't answer or is evasive, by all means skip the item.


or if you get an answer from a seller and they have answered honestly
which in this case the ebay member that was first mentioned in this thread then at least they gave you a straight answer as i can see from the reply that stoney got the seller is not dishonest and did reply with a honest answer

if they had not replied then i would of been bothered
 but as they replied and gave there answer if you are not happy with the answer and lose interest in the item after there reply because it was not what you wanted to hear then you just move on

so lets get back to happier things

i will say this though the ebayer mentioned in the first post of this thread
its only fair they have there name removed from the post
because its a little unfair
i think the auctions the ebay member was selling i think the descriptions where just a genuine mistake thats all
innocent

i think maybe some of us have made a big thing bout one person over nothing as the thread name

dodgy auctions does kind of imply that the seller is dodgy when that might not be the case

i hope everyone sees the goodness in my opinion

[sue]

Whilst i respect your opinion and your right to air it i also disagree. I had the boxes on watching and was almost ready to buy a few but they kept being ended. if i`d have received an opened box i`d have been very upset. Nienna did the right thing 

You didnt answer my first question,
Are you the seller?

[tialessa]

If I see suspect auctions - seller may be trying to pull the wool over people's eyes, seller may not know what they have, etc. I tell folks about it.  It's part of this community.  I'm sorry you have a problem with that, but unless the forum owners change the policy so we're not allowed to warn folks about auctions/sellers, then I'll continue to do so.

[diagonhp]

Whilst i respect your opinion and your right to air it i also disagree. I had the boxes on watching and was almost ready to buy a few but they kept being ended. if i`d have received an opened box i`d have been very upset. Nienna did the right thing 

You didnt answer my first question,
Are you the seller?

well maybe the cos box was ended becuase the seller kept having second thoughts about selling it

they might of just wanted to keep it,
as its the the only first box in the series after all
that you can get hold of now
and decided to just end it.

i also was watching this sellers cos box and i also emailed them and they told me
that the cos box was a factory sealed box.
does that put your mind at ease sue.

and no im not the seller

[diagonhp]

If I see suspect auctions - seller may be trying to pull the wool over people's eyes, seller may not know what they have, etc. I tell folks about it.  It's part of this community.  I'm sorry you have a problem with that, but unless the forum owners change the policy so we're not allowed to warn folks about auctions/sellers, then I'll continue to do so.

hey tialessa

i was only giving my opinion

thats all ok

[sue]

well maybe the cos box was ended becuase the seller kept having second thoughts about selling it

they might of just wanted to keep it,
as its the the only first box in the series after all
that you can get hold of now
and decided to just end it.

i also was watching this sellers cos box and i also emailed them and they told me
that the cos box was a factory sealed box.
does that put your mind at ease sue.

and no im not the seller

You didnt mention that you`ve been corresponding with seller before, very convenient that you did about the COS boxes. So i take it the seller changed their mind over 4 times and also about the GOF boxes too. WOW!!
I must say the only thing this confirms to me and i`m sure everyone else is that youre the seller. Theres no-one with any sense that would defend someone whos so obviously trying to mislead people unless they were involved. You`ve had experts telling you very legitimate findings and you say youre a newbie but you choose to defend and keep insisting the sellers id be hidden, you make it so obvious. Youre a buyer so why would you defend a possible dodgy dealer.
Enjoy your time on the forum, bye.
sue.

[allender]

Much of the time, an opened box with one pack missing could have resulted from a store buying a box to sell packs, and finding out that their regular clientele isn't interested in the subject.

Sure, sometimes the "pack searchers" can pick out a pack with a thick prop or costume card, but they're never going to pick a pack with an autograph. More often, you'll see opened boxes with 24 packs in them ... but a seller might have opened several boxes and reconstructed "24-pack batches of packs" after culling packs with inserts in them. If advertised properly, sometimes these known-to-be-searched odd-lots of packs are a nice deal, because the searchers don't bother with the low-end chase cards.

Having a factory sealed box doesn't necessarily give you the same odds as everybody else. Some sellers have been known to open caseloads of boxes, and after finding an Emma autograph in the third one, they sell off the rest of the case.

So I'm very careful who I buy boxes from and, except for some releases that don't have high-end inserts, I'm a repeat buyer from somebody I trust. There are plenty of good sellers who sell boxes straight from the case without any "research" beforehand.

One researcher was honest enough about it all to lose my future box business. When there was a problem with one order, he wrote back saying he'd get me a missing box in the mail right away, and he'd make sure it wasn't from a searched case. The same seller still offers "unsealed boxes 24 packs," but I'd definitely know what to expect!

[Nienna]

I think the truth over whether this GOF box was cherry-picked or not will emerge soon enough, once the person who has bought it receives the box, finds that the box is open and gets only base and possibly the correct quotient of chase cards from it. 
There would've been no point me posting the auctions without the Ebay seller's ID - name and shame them because none of the three box auctions was completely honest and I'm sure some unwary buyer will find this to their cost in the next few days. I'm not a betting person, but I'm fairly sure that the ended auction for the 2nd GOF box will have been sold off-ebay to the same person who bought the first box ... so, £80 for two boxes of complete rubbish.
I have no problem with Ebay seller's making a profit from the items they sell, but I do have a BIG problem with sellers taking advantage of newcomers and deliberately omitting very important information from their listings to make a sale.
As far as I can tell, this seller's response to stoney's query regarding the number of packs in the box was probably the only truthful thing they said and you know why?
Because to lie when responding through Ebay to a query means the person asking the question then has written proof which they can then forward to Ebay Customer Support when they come make a claim for an 'item not received as stated' should they proceed and buy the item and it's not what they expected.
I've been watching ALL the card-based auctions this seller has for sale and was alarmed to see them re-list a card which had sold a week previously and which the buyer left them negative feedback because they wouldn't honour the sale. The re-listed card is now a private auction - the perfect opportunity to shill bid on your own item so it sells for an amount which they want for the card bu which they doubt it would reach and which no-one else can see what's going on. Now I may being doing this seller an injustice here in saying this, but why else would they make this second listing private, given the outcome from the first listing?
I agree that there are times when sellers ought to make their auctions private for some very valid reasons and especially for the very expensive/rare cards, but this seller is deluded if they think this particular prop card will attain an end price anywhere near those cards - true, the card is numbered out of 100 but they sell for around £50 not £500+!!
The negative they received over this card's first auction should've set alarm bells ringing for everyone looking at the rest of their items, if only to highlight the fact the seller is willing to back out of a sale and also willing to end auctions and re-list them several times over a short period of time.

I have since learned that this seller has another Ebay ID which they happily use to buy Costco jelly beans which they then use in their Bertie Botts props boxes of sweets on this Ebay ID.
The listing description is carefuly worded - nowhere does it state either way that the jelly beans are 'official' ones, but it is implied that they are:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HARRY-POTTER-CANDY-BOX-WITH-85G-BAG-OF-JELLY-BEANS_W0QQitemZ170229022693QQihZ007QQcategoryZ29798QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
I know this is slightly off-topic from my original post, but I'm trying to get my point across - this seller has poor feedback and is economical with the truth on many of their auctions.

diagonhp - I recall you asking how much a box of COS was worth on another thread.
If it's an open box then you'd be lucky to sell it for a fiver, if it was still factory sealed then it would be worth more.
If you think that I'm singling this seller out for some harsh treatment ... well yes, maybe I am!
I'm fed-up of seeing people like this ripping-off others on Ebay and getting away with it. 
Ferdinand_the_yak rightly pointed out that there have been plenty of other rogue Ebay sellers which we've posted about on here and no doubt there will be others to write about in the future. 
If my posts affect this person's sales - good, because they're being dishonest.

Sue - thank you for elevating me to 'expert' status!! 

LikORish & allender - thank you very much for your valuable observations over what can happen when buying boxes/cases of cards. I think the old adage applies here - 'if it looks too good to be true, then it probably is.' 
There are some excellent Ebay sellers who regularly sell to forum members and we value their honesty above all else - we really don't need rogue sellers on Ebay, as their underhanded tactics undermine buyers' confidence when making expensive purchases like this and everyone is affected.

Tialessa - good to know someone else is community-spirited and letting others know all might not be what it appears to be in auctions like these. 

The most alarming thing which follows on from this sorry mess, is that toysngiftsdirect is actually a forum member! 
Oh yes, they are ... in fact they have two forum ID's which I know of and possibly a third, which means they've been reading all this and laughing at the lot of us!

I don't like being made a fool of and I'm sure the rest of the established membership don't like being made fools of either ... 
For the moment, I will refrain from posting the Ebay and forum ID's on here but - I will happily supply the forum owners and moderators with this information when asked.

[rns91294]

Thank you Nienna for pointing this all out. There have been many times we posted on this forum about dodgy sellers. After all, that is a part of what this forum is about. We are a community of collector's and a lot of us have formed close friendships as well. If you can't tell your friend about something suspecious, then who can you tell? And, if it helps out some new members who we hope will stick around with us, then I don't feel that anything is wrong by pointing things like this out.

We should help eBay and our community out by posting a thread listing of those where evidence points to "dodginess", like our Megan's Law, dub it Nienna's Law

[MuggleMum]

The info Nienna has provided will prove to be invaluable......thanks Nienna Unfortunately the World of Harry Potter does seem to attract the odd sleazeball hoping to cash in on the collectors and fans out there. I know of the other forum ids Nienna mentions and know they were linked to the Ebay Id she mentioned.....I was hoping they had learned their lesson last time after being proved to be less then  honest and stayed away....no such luck though 

Can I sign up to be one of Nienna's Army please ?   

Also I had a look at the Bertie Botts box auction and funnily enough it was revised TODAY ,  after Niennas post .The description had been changed to Jelly Belly beans . Proves the Ebayer has been reading the posts 

[stoney]

Families and friends look out for each other!
And that is what this board is like....a great big family!
Thanks to Nienna and every board member who has posted info about dodgy sellers.
Your info has proved invaluable to me and no doubt lots of other board members in the past and continues to do so.
If new members and old members alike feel like this is a place where they are looked out for then they will want to stay and make this board even more fantastic than it already is!.
Just like the four Hogwarts Houses we are divided (in some of our opinions and comments )
but we will unite together in times of trouble
To quote the last few lines of the sorting hat's song from OOTP (with a few words changed of course).
"Oh, know the perils, read the signs,
The warning buying history shows,
For our Forum is in danger
From external deadly selling foes
And we must unite inside her
Or we'll crumble from within
I have told you, I have warned you....
Let Nienna's Army now begin"

I'm with you MuggleMum 

[sue]

Well this is what a real community should be like, and i know i`m new but i  would be very happy to be included in Niennas army too    . 

[MuggleMum]

Hi Stoney

You have hidden talents...loved the rewrite of the song

Glad you and Sue agree with me on the Nienna's army suggestion...although we will have to be careful and have our wits about us ...wouldn't want Filch or Prof.Umbridge getting wind of it

[sue]

    oh yes i`ve heard bad things about those two aswell 

[stoney]

Thanks MuggleMum
I don't know what made me think of doing the song. It must be my most inspired post yet

Don't worry about Filch..we'll just give Mrs Norris a kick up the