UK Yaks sign a petition to stop new road taxes

[Guest]

[De Orc]

Bring down congestion quite easy realy lower fares on public transport, increase the number of trains (why not double decker trains?) and buses, make them more secure, build new modern railways & stations, put non essential or perishable cargo on to canal boats 

De Orc 

[Roz]

There is a good point here. They suggest that the 'school run' is a huge cause of congestion. I recently tried going up a road at school time, I must have been insane, I saw some incredibly bad driving, and the congestion was hideous.

Might I ask this adult generation how they got to school? I couldn't walk, it was 17 miles but in my youngest years I went by school bus, and as I got older I used to take the train (which involved just over a mile's walk uphill in the morning, I often ran late and had to scouts pace this, which is probably why I was so skinny as a kid). My parents probably drove me to school about 3 times per year.

My brother went to 'College' (16-18) in the village that we lived in, but we don't live in the centre, we live about a mile and a half out of this ribbon development. How did he get to school? My parents bought him a bike.

The kids who live next door to my parents now get a free taxi to take their children to the same college... a taxi?? How can that be a good use of public money? These kids aren't at all fat, but you can see how other children of their generation are being mollycoddled into obesity.

[Nienna]

Looks like those of us who signed the online petition can look forward to receiving an email from Mr Tony Blair himself!! 
I just spotted this article on my internet home page news section ....

"Tony Blair is emailing almost 1.8 million people who signed an online petition against road charging.

The petition, signed by 1,792,624 people on the Downing Street website, follows Government proposals aimed at cutting congestion on Britain's roads

Mr Blair said road charging, which would track motorists by satellite and charge them for every mile they drive to cut down on pollution and traffic, would not be just another tax.

He denied it is about imposing stealth taxes or introducing Big Brother-style surveillance and insisted that "pricing is not being forced on any area".

However, Mr Blair said pilot schemes being proposed by the Government "would teach us more about how road pricing would work and inform decisions on a national scheme".

And he hinted that road charging could lead to a cut in car tax.

"Clearly if we decided to move towards a system of national road pricing, there could be a case for moving away from the current system of motoring taxation," he said.

He emphasised that no decision had been made yet and that a national debate was needed.

Some estimates suggest a tracking scheme could cost drivers up to £1.34 a mile in the busiest areas at rush hour.

Nigel Humphries, spokesman for the Association of British Drivers (ABD), said: "We are delighted with the response to this. I think the final total would have been higher if the petition had gone on longer.

"The number of objectors represents quite a big tip of an even bigger iceberg."

© Independent Television News Limited 2007. All rights reserved.
"

I agree with what everyone has said about walking to school and not clogging up the roads with needless car journeys but .... don't forget how paranoid parents are these days where the safely of their kids is concerned, plus the fact that society as a whole is more violent, with drugs, solvent abuse, knives and guns in places you least expect to find them. Many parents drop their kids off at school on their way to and from work don't forget, but traffic close to any of the schools is dreadful and to be avoided at all costs!
I'll hold my hand up and admit to taking my son to and from his school each day when he really should be walking. Why do I do it? Several reasons why .... to make sure he gets there and on time each day ... because of the amount of kit he has to take in and bring home again for PE and his other lessons (their lockers are tiny for the amount of stuff they have!) and because I now have a car to do it! All his primary school years the two of us have dutifully walked there and back each day as I didn't have access to a car and as a consequence I hadn't driven for roughly four years, so for me to get back behind the wheel after that amount of time was something of an achievement!
So I'd say that time is probably the biggest factor why so many people embark on the school run each day.
I walked to each of my schools when I was a kid, but I was more fortunate than you Roz as we lived very close to all of them! It was unusual I suppose because the infants and junior schools were directly across the road from the grammar school I went to.
My brother went to the secondary school further along from the grammar school and he walked there each day too. My sister had to walk several miles across unmade roads and field to the school she went to cos none of it had proper roads or houses built on it then ... but that's winding the clock back even further from when my bro and I went to school!   
I suspect my son will eventually want to walk to school and back on his own as he gets more streetwise and that bit older, but for now Mum's Taxi works the route through town!

[Roz]

That is true Jules, but this is a village where literally nothing happens. If a purse goes missing in a car park (as happens occasionally) a memo is sent to all residents in the neighbourhood watch area

And yes... no sane person would go near a school at crazy-mum-pick-up-time, but I was forced... but seriously, several could have got points on their licences for their actions.

[Morningangel-Iola]

The trouble is that a lot of mums drive kids to school even if they could easily walk like with most Junior schools. I did laugh one time I was waiting for the bus and a mum parked in the bus stop, not simiply a quick drop off but she took ages take the kids out, then did she come straight back when she had dropped them off? Nope she left it parked there for ages, I never saw her come back which is a shame as I would have loved to see her face when she saw the lovely shiney parking ticket she got Never was it more deserved.

Oh course the size of vehicles used doesn't help the blockages like a massive 4x4 for one or two kids

I got my email from old Ton' did anyone actually make it to the bottom without dozing off?

[Sharon]

Sorry Sharon, but that just can't be right... on a Sunday, £150? Seriously?

Well to be honest this was only a guesstimate on what I have heard.  The round trip was approximately 120 miles, mostly on the M25.  I based this figure on the fact they have said the motorways are going to more expensive, even though we were causing less congestion by using it.  I had seen a figure of £1.50 a mile for motorway use so I just knocked some off for being off peak on a Sunday.  Even if it is only a third of this amount that is way too much - the convalescent home we were visiting is in the middle of nowhere so we had to drive.

Don't even get me started about mothers and cars    We have a primary school at the top of our road.  The mothers are excellent drivers until they have their children in the car and then they drive like lunatics, stuff all the other kids.

I got my email from old Ton' did anyone actually make it to the bottom without dozing off?

Yes I slogged through every word    The general gist was nothing has been decided yet but when it is, the Government will do what it thinks is best regardless of what the people of this country wants.  No change there then from how they are doing everything else 

[Morningangel-Iola]

Did you stay awake while reading it through Chris?

[Roz]

I think Brits who have seen the road safety ads would like this

[Morningangel-Iola]

Did you stay awake while reading it through Chris?

Where did he go?

Lol thats good Roz

[Geek Boy]

I agree with what everyone has said about walking to school and not clogging up the roads with needless car journeys but .... don't forget how paranoid parents are these days where the safely of their kids is concerned, plus the fact that society as a whole is more violent, with drugs, solvent abuse, knives and guns in places you least expect to find them.

And who's fault is all of this?  Tony Blair's government of course.  They are hopeless at tackling crime.  And they are hopeless at tackling the sort of punishments those who commit crime should be receiving.  Prison is like staying in a hotel these days.  Colour TV's, Playstations, Snooker tables.  No wonder so many re-offend when they get out.  It's just a big laugh for most of them.  There's no incentive to keep out of trouble.  Kids can commit a robbery knowing that they can't be punished, nor can they be named and shamed.  ASBO's are a badge of honour, not just among teenagers but their parents too.  And some of the adults who get them!  It's not like we didn't have any of this stuff around when we were kids.  I remember walking to college one lunchtime in the mid 80's and seeing a group of kids (no older than 12) glue sniffing in broad daylight.  When I was at school, some of the kids brought weapons of all sorts (not guns admittedly) when a fight had been organised with a neighbouring school.  And I went to a good grammar school, not a comprehensive.

Tony Blair preaches the importance of family values but does nothing to re-enforce them.  Standards in education are declining, people have no respect for themselves or others and the people they look up to now are the Vicky Pollard's of this world.  There was a woman in the paper yesterday with 5 kids, raking in the equivalent of a £35K salary in benefits (that's your taxes she's getting folks) who has actually had the cheek to write to Blair complaining that her benefits will stop unless she finds a job!  Her view is that there's no point getting a job if the government will fund her layabout lifestyle.  Of course she neglected to mention that the reason she had 5 kids in the first place was to get free housing, loads of benefits, no council tax, free milk....

[Bogleg]

When it was first conceived, the charge for vehicles in London was going to be based on emissions from the car and was a charge based on pollution. To call it a congestion charge is totally bogus. Electric cars are not subject to the charge. First, think of the cost to safely dispose of these cars when they are junk. Second, if 50,000 of these cars descended on London, how would the congestion be any less?

[Roz]

I do agree with Geek Boy. I didn't go to a comp either, but there were always kids with funny-looking-squidgey-rocks. Kids were always up to no good, but teachers probably had more control (and were much scarier) than they are allowed to be today (and this is only 8-15 years ago), no, I'm not saying that they were allowed to hit us, they weren 't but they were allowed to scare the living daylights out of us in other ways... these days the kids know that they have so many rights and have so little respect for their teachers it's unbelievable.

Yup, Boggy, this is one of my many objections to the Toyota Prius... it might look green on the outside, but it's not at all. The car is made from parts from all over the world (strike one), despite what the manufacturer's tell you the car doesn't really get an astonishingly good mpg rating (strike two) and all those parts inside it (battery etc.) are a bugger to dispose of at the end of the vehicle's useful life (strike three... AND OUT).

There's a reason why this car, which looks like a bullet and sounds like a lawn-mower is my dream car



It was a project of VWs that squeezed a whopping 285 miles from each gallon of petrol... can you beat that in your new car GB?

I'd also settle for this



Which does a good 80mpg... not quite so righteous but a lot faster

None of these are available, and the lawnmower seems to have been abandoned, so in all honesty I'll probably end up with a Golf (which is not good for congestion charges either!)

[pinksamstar]

I got my email from old Ton' did anyone actually make it to the bottom without dozing off?

i didnt even attepmt to read it, i dont want to hear his labour druel about good of the country erkkkk

[Geek Boy]

no, I'm not saying that they were allowed to hit us, they weren 't but they were allowed to scare the living daylights out of us in other ways...

Ooh, I don't know about that.  My teachers used to throw the board duster at us if we weren't paying attention (big lump of wood with felt on one side.  Funny how it was always the wooden side that landed on your head.  It hurt too).  One teacher actually rapped us over the knuckles with a ruler during a maths test if we got a question wrong.  And a flick around the back of the head with a ruler was also common practice.

But did we complain?  No, we just accepted that the teacher was right - because our parents taught us to respect them.  Did we go running to our parents crying "assault"?  No.  Chances are our parents would probably have shouted at us or given us a clip around the ear for the same reason the teacher did - "You weren't paying attention?  Then I'm surprised the board duster was all you got!" - clip!.  It's all these progressive do-gooders who started saying that we mustn't punish our children because it stifles their development.  And we mustn't tell them to shut up when they are being noisy because they are just "expressing themselves".

Blair has mucho mucho to answer for...

[Nienna]

no, I'm not saying that they were allowed to hit us, they weren 't but they were allowed to scare the living daylights out of us in other ways...

Oh how right you are Geek Boy .... 

Ooh, I don't know about that.  My teachers used to throw the board duster at us if we weren't paying attention (big lump of wood with felt on one side.  Funny how it was always the wooden side that landed on your head.  It hurt too).  One teacher actually rapped us over the knuckles with a ruler during a maths test if we got a question wrong.  And a flick around the back of the head with a ruler was also common practice.

But did we complain?  No, we just accepted that the teacher was right - because our parents taught us to respect them.  Did we go running to our parents crying "assault"?  No.  Chances are our parents would probably have shouted at us or given us a clip around the ear for the same reason the teacher did - "You weren't paying attention?  Then I'm surprised the board duster was all you got!" - clip!.  It's all these progressive do-gooders who started saying that we mustn't punish our children because it stifles their development.  And we mustn't tell them to shut up when they are being noisy because they are just "expressing themselves".

Blair has mucho mucho to answer for...

I recall my Mum asking me many years ago, whether I resented her disciplining me to which I replied ... 'Don't be daft! If I got a clout round the ear'ole then I probably deserved it!'
Board dusters, pieces of chalk, erasers, rulers flicked onto knuckles/back of the head were all commonplace when I was at school too. I'm not saying they were right, but these measures instilled fear into those being taught and respect for authority - and if you persisted, then it was the cane across the backside for the boys and a slipper across the rear for the girls ... you were only given lines if the headmaster/headmistress thought it was a lesser offence.
Yeah, pretty brutal I know, but I can guarantee the people who were taught when those practices were prevalent, grew up in the main to be adults who respected the Police and definitely knew what was acceptable behaviour and what wasn't.
I agree that there does need to be something in place to protect those children who are regularly and violently abused, but to deny parents the means to teach their own children the fundamental differences between right and wrong by not allowing them to chastise their kids is insane. There's absolutely no doubt about it, but children need to be taught, whether told verbally or by example and this nampy-pamby attitude is doing nobody any favours.
I well remember the looks of shock on the primary school teachers' faces when I told them they had my consent to discipline my son if he'd been naughty, only to be told that they couldn't do that and the most they would be able to do would be to sit him in a corner away from the other kids.
Another time, one of the kids got some kind rope/string whatever around my son's neck and almost throttled him - you should've seen the bruising! Unluckily this was on a Friday and we only found out what had gone on after the school had shut that afternoon, so I couldn't go in and challenge them over the incident until the weekend was over. I'm sure the office staff thought me deranged (I probably am, but I couldn't give a stuff), but when we took my son back into the office on the Monday morning to show them the marks AND told them we had digital photos as proof of the extent of the bruising when he came home on the Friday, I think I scared the cr*p out of them because they thought I'd sue.
I was furious. This happened purely because the teaching staff are no longer able to control the children in their charge adequately any more. After that sorry episode, the school took a little more notice of me if I had anything to say!  As far as I'm concerned, ANY school my son attends is wholly responsible for his physical and mental wellbeing and have a duty of care towards him - I had the greatest of pleasure reminding them of this at the time ... 




Sorry ... I seemed to have wandered off topic a bit there ....