General discussion of the Half Blood Prince - for once you have finished reading

[Guest]

[Morningangel-Iola]

Yes I really think the lack of gloating means something.

[allender]

Well, Snape was kind of busy at the time. But moreso, I think his saying "can even put a stopper in death" might have been a clue. The premiere DADA specialists know defenses against the Unforgivable Curses.

I don't think either Sirius or Regulus lived, or Kreacher wouldn't have obeyed Harry.

[Roz]

I wish to the heavens above that you are right, but I fear that Dumbledore is gone. He needed to go to make the final confrontation more dangerous for Harry. It's also about Harry becoming more independant too - whilst Dumbledore was a wonderfully powerful wizard he never explained to Harry how to sense magic etc (like AD did in the cave) and I think in order for Harry to be our perfect Wizarding hero he needs to struggle to get to grips with Occlumency and become a wizard like AD by the end of the next book (almost).

Was anyone else peeved that the nassssty Draco had got to grips with Occlumency before Harry? BAH

[ferdinand_the_yak]

Well, Snape was kind of busy at the time. But moreso, I think his saying "can even put a stopper in death" might have been a clue.

I think that refers to a poison rather than an antidote...

Was anyone else peeved that the nassssty Draco had got to grips with Occlumency before Harry? BAH

That WAS Harry's fault though

[kbmum]

With Dumbledore dead and Snape appearing to have defected, who's going to teach Occlumency to Harry?  My guess is Lupin.  He's definitely a Legilimens, at any rate.

[Morningangel-Iola]

What makes you say Lupins a Legilimens?

[LikORish-Spider]

Draco was coerced into acting. In defense of Draco, if Lucius was your Dad you'd probably turn out to be a brain-washed twit as well.
People arn't born bigots, they learn it.
But in defense of kids, some of them are smart enough or innocent enough to see through and overcome bad influences.
Notice that when Dumbledore talked to Draco he faltered.
About Narcissa and Snape, I definitely sensed something there. And notice that Snape did not hesitate to make the Unbreakable Vow.
This convinced Bellatrix, without a doubt, that Snape was/is not a traitor. Plus all of the eye witnesses of the inner circle, Death Eaters, who saw
Snape curse Dumbledore. No doubt Snape is now firmly ensconced in Voldemort's mind that Snape is "True Black" (Sorry, "True Blue" is too positive.)
Snape also being an accomplished Occlumens can prevent LV from penetrating his mind. He is now perfectly set up to spy even deeper into LV's plans.
This sort of gives you the idea that the entire Dumbledore death was pre-arranged. Dumbledore could have disapperated at the moment
Snape cursed him and substitued a false body in his place.
His "death" would put Voldemort into a false idea that the one Wizard he was afraid of was dead.
Of course, for obvious reasons, Harry will have to be kept in the "dark" about that to be convincing.
Harry is too touchy-feely emotionally that he couldn't fake his feelings. Remember how he intensely hated Sirius until he knew the truth.
If Voldemort were to read Harry's mind in a moment of weakness he'd find out that Dumbldore is still alive. SO, Harry had to witness and be totally
convinced that Dumbledore was dead, and that the hatred for Snape was, if possible, even more rabid.

[ferdinand_the_yak]

That's a really good point John!!! I just hope that Dumbledore had enough energy to Disapparate - but remember you can't disapparate on Hogwarts grounds - or did Dumbledore 'undo' that temporarily when he did the magic that allowed him and Harry to fly into the school grounds?

[Morningangel-Iola]

He undid a lot which also worries me about the future saftey of Hoggies if it opens again.

[LikORish-Spider]

That's a really good point John!!! I just hope that Dumbledore had enough energy to Disapparate - but remember you can't disapparate on Hogwarts grounds - or did Dumbledore 'undo' that temporarily when he did the magic that allowed him and Harry to fly into the school grounds?

I'm sure that when Dumbledore set up the security he made them with included exceptions for himself only.
Sort of like being the SECRET KEPPER for locations, maybe Dumbledore is the "SECURITY KEEPER" for hogwarts.
The only reason he was mumbling a spell was to allow the brooms into Hogwarts. This may have been because Harry was with him and he needed to allow Harry's broom in with him.

[ferdinand_the_yak]

I don't think Dumbledore set up the security - Hogwarts is described as being protected by an ancient magic which probably the 4 founders set up. But I guess as with all things, there is always a way around it!

[mcgonagall]

didn't dumbledore disapparate before  when he admitted that he had organised Dumbledores Army

so that leads me to believe that he could have escaped if he wanted too

[ferdinand_the_yak]

Yeah... but he was so weak that he could barely stand up straight - would he have been able to perform magic?

[LikORish-Spider]

You may be right. Then again, Dumbledore increased the security 100 fold during the summer. There may be a threshold of security set up by the four founders that cannot be reduced. Maybe the headmasters have permissions that go with the office of headmaster that allow them extrordinary and unique previledges.

[LikORish-Spider]

Yeah... but he was so weak that he could barely stand up straight - would he have been able to perform magic?

This "weakness" inhances the poor Dumbledore scene that may have been eloborately staged for Harry to enable the deception of LV.
Amazing isn't it, how Harry was able to Apparate both he and Dumbledore with such precision back to the front of the Hog's Head?
A weak Dumbledore or a cunning Dumbledore?

[Morningangel-Iola]

Or was it because Harry was very focused at the time?

[grecopa]

You CAN dissaperate on Hogwarts grounds.  Dobby and Kreatcher do it all the time.  I think it's been beaten into everyones head that it's impossible, so no one tries.

[kbmum]

What makes you say Lupins a Legilimens?

I think JK has left a lot of clues that Lupin is a Legilimens.  In POA, Harry thought that Lupin could read his mind.  It came up during the boggart/dementor lessons and other times, as well.  In OOTP, Harry thought the same thing when the Order arrived to take him from the Dursleys' house:

Lupin held out his hand and shook Harry's.  "How are you?" he asked, looking at Harry closely.

A little later:

"A surprising number of people volunteered to come and get you," said Lupin, as thought he had read Harry's mind.

There's also the scene when Sirius and Molly fight over how much info should be given to Harry:

Ron, Hermione, Fred, and George's heads turned from Sirius to Mrs. Weasley as though following a tennis rally...Lupin's eyes were fixed on Sirius.

Harry had the same feeling about Snape, who can do both Legilimency and Occlumency, and we learned in OOTP that eye contact is important to Legilimency.  To me, it all adds up to Remus having one or both abilities.

[Morningangel-Iola]

Oh yes actually he might well be, would come in handy being as the other two that could do it are no longer available.

[grecopa]

You CAN dissaperate on Hogwarts grounds.  Dobby and Kreatcher do it all the time.  I think it's been beaten into everyones head that it's impossible, so no one tries.

How else would Kreatcher get from Harrys house to Hogwarts?  And JKR even says in HPB that Kreatcher "DISSAPERATED" (inside Hogwarts) after Harry gave him his assignment or after Kreatcher gave Harry the report.  I can't recall which scene at the moment, but I'll look it up.