General discussion of the Half Blood Prince - for once you have finished reading

[Guest]

[ferdinand_the_yak]

This topic will be unlocked on July 16

This topic is for those who have finished HBP in its entirety or for those who just want to know what happened!

[Choice of Lúthien]

Well, I finished it about an hour and a half ago and can't stop thinking about it. What an intense book. It was very interesting, and better and OOTP.
General reactions:
I can't believe she killed Dumbledore!!! I understand the reasoning that it means Harry has no one left to stand behind, but still. NOOOOOOO.
And Snape is evil. NOOOOOOO. To think that Dumbledore trusted him, after everything Harry said. Why oh why?? And he was the half blood prince (who didn't play quite the large part I was expecting). Hmm.
All the backstory to Lord Voldemort was quite fascinating.
So Harry and Ginny. Cute. And it's so going to be Hermione and Ron--maybe once everything is over.
And of course, who is RAB? 

[Nienna]

Mike, with all due respect ... you didn't have to look here if you'd not finished reading the book - the title of this thread does say 'for once you've finished reading' after all!

I finished reading my copy about half an hour ago and won't comment on the contents till I know more ppl have read their copies ... I have to agree with Alyssa though ... very intense and an excellent book, I enjoyed reading it enormously!

[Trey]

I finished my book a while ago, but I had to have some sleep cause I had been reading all day!!

All I can say is....I knew it was coming but I still cried my eyes out for the last three chapters of the book  :'( I think it wasnt just DD, I think it was the fact that Snape was bad that upset me too cause I always hoped that he wouldnt be 

I do love the pairing up of the couples, kinda the way I thought it would be, but with the added extra of Tonks n Lupin!

I was upset though that they got that horcrux for nothing that it wasnt the one they wanted, but it may already be destroyed...hmm

Im happy with the way it ended too, upset thought that harry wont go back to hogwarts, but I love his determination, he now knows what he has to do, find the remaining 4 horcruxes and kill vold for the last one, and he will get it done im sure.....and look out if he ever runs into snape 

I think it was a really great book, on par with OOTP which was great as well... but the last part of the book was just supurb (upsetting but still supurb at the same time!!)

[samwise16]

Im shocked, kinda upset, i get well into the book, Snape killing Albus, its pisses me off silly, everyone shudda seen he wasn't loyal from the first book. And the next book is going to be totally unique, maybe no more hogwarts, it'll be about harry, ron and hermione on their quest to defeat Voldermort and the teachers and Aurors helping harry along the way. I'm happy about the  background of voldermort being looked into i thought that was class. Well upset about Dumbledore's death i just can't see how harry is going to survive without his protection. You see the way he tried to fight Snape, he was over powered everytime, it will take alot of learning to defeat any death eater now, and without hogwarts maybe, it will have to be lupin or someone teaching him how to fight...ahh i want the next book

[Trey]

The strange thing is though, even though harrry is not fantastic at his spellwork...I think that he is very powerful, maybe more powerful than DD was...just for the pure fact that harry knew all along that snape was bad...and harry knew all along that draco was up to something...and harry knew all along that snape was on side with draco...and harry knew that something was going to happen at hogwarts that night, thats why he gave that stuff to the DA members...

Looking at all this he seems more powerful, even than DD cause he could feel what was happening/going to happen...and DD wouldnt listen to him and really I think underestimated harry in that respect.

[greenpaw]

Ok so i finished the book at 11pm last night and wow very impressive JKR-she's such a smart cookie.
But do you really think Snape is bad.
OkOk so he killed Dumbledore thats not very good  .
But i still have faith in dumbledore's feeling about Snape-it was always rock solid that he trusted Snape.

SO why would he have killed Dumbledore in a positive way? (Please don't jump on me for this its been a long 24hours and i'm not being as eloquent as i could.) A few ideas:
*So Harry would have no one to stand behind any more and have to find his inner strength (which he did at the end. His resolve was very strong).
*He can be more of a help dead than alive as the prophecy says Harry alone must kill He Who Must Not be Named-It can't be Dumledore
This is in a kind of Obi Wan helping Luke kind of way-The mentor helps the student from beyond the grave.

Him pleading with Severus at the end does not mean he was saying"Don't kill me" but could be "PLease Severus do what we discussed"
Anyone have any similar thoughts.
I was ok with Dumbledore dying until Hagrid started crying and then  :'( :'( :'( :'( I'm such a sucker for other people crying!
Inger

[Trey]

I think that is quite true too..how DD and Snape were arguing and hagrid saw them, I thought it was odd...I think that maybe DD was telling snape that he had to kill DD...

Well I guess there are two ways it could go...Snape is bad...or snape is not bad and was just acting on DDs orders...

I am hoping the latter as I have always hoped that snape was good...and honestly I think that he could have killed harry, and that there was a reason that DD stopped harry from being able to save him, honestly harry would have been quite capable of jinxing draco and then DD would be free to grab his wand...but DD did not let harry do it

so im hoping that snape is still good and that DD had this planned all along...but we will have to wait and see 

[Choice of Lúthien]

I really don't want to believe Snape is really bad...But Dumbledore's 'iron-clawed' (or whatever the phrase was) reason for trusting Snape was that Snape repented?? Even though as Harry rightly points out Snape hated his father?? I guess I was hoping Dumbledore had a better reason than that (though I suppose him not killing Harry helps). Like I thought Snape does seem to be looking out for himself first and foremost...doesn't want to go to Azkaban. I'm still hoping he'll redeem himself--like Gollum.
Btw, when Hermione and Ron insisted that they are following Harry, did anyone else think of ROTK (the movie specifically but also the book) and Legolas and Gimli telling Aragorn they will follow him on the paths of the dead, no matter what?? There was also something else that made me think of LOTR (after I had finished).

And Mike, sorry if I ruined it. I assumed general discussion would be full of spoilers and people would know that.
But I do believe the info "This topic is for those who have finished HBP in its entirety or for those who just want to know what happened!" was posted before I posted, even if the title was changed afterwards.

[allender]

Ok so i finished the book at 11pm last night and wow very impressive JKR-she's such a smart cookie.
But do you really think Snape is bad.
OkOk so he killed Dumbledore thats not very good  .
But i still have faith in dumbledore's feeling about Snape-it was always rock solid that he trusted Snape.

...

Him pleading with Severus at the end does not mean he was saying"Don't kill me" but could be "PLease Severus do what we discussed"
Anyone have any similar thoughts.

That's the way it looked to me. Really, wouldn't it have been rather out of character for Dumbly to have been begging for his life? And there wasn't really enough time for the Headmaster to have been convinced that Snape was on the Dark Lord's side just from the action in the tower, was there?

The story Albus gave to Harry about how Severus heard the first part of the prophecy and then went to tell HWMNBN argues against it, but his explanation was awfully short and lame, which made me think that it wasn't part of the plan for Harry to believe Snape was a good guy. And Jo did manage to have Trelawney tell us that Dumbledore's brother was right there with Snape when he was listening at the keyhole.  My theory: there's no way that Harry (or Neville) will be able to get close enough to Voldemort for the final battle unless Snape is established incontrovertibly as an insider.

And to bring Pettigrew along to save Harry at a critical moment, repaying his debt. And maybe the silver hand will be used against Fenric, now that he's been built into a major character, and not to kill Lupin like I dreaded.

I'll be *danged* if I can come up with previously introduced candidates for the Gryffindor-or-Ravenclaw artifact. My best guess is that it will have something to do with Percy. It had to have been chosen after Riddle lost access to Hogwarts, I think.

I'm not going to spoil "R.A.B." yet since somebody will let it out of the bag, and I think many people who have been watching can figure it out.

JKR fooled me because I speculated that Tonks's strange behavior was due to an Imperius curse.

All in all, this is not a book that will appeal mostly to the kiddees, will it? There weren't too many "movie moments" until after page 500. 

[Morningangel-Iola]

Well I have finished. In general I liked the book but I didn't like the ending. The thought of Harry not going back to school. So even if he does servive he can't be an Auror because he has dropped his newts.

I like your idea of Snape, but it really doesn't look good. I hope you guys are right. And no you are right Dumbledore pleeding for his life not likely. I knew he had to die so it came as no shock. Harry couldn't do it with his protection. The ending has kinda put me off kilter 

Although one thing that has made me very happy indeed

  TONKS AND LUPIN I hoped and prayed  OH YES OH YES OH YES

[ferdinand_the_yak]

OMG

This was so good, but so depressing :'( I can't say I wasn't expecting Dumbledore to die, but not this book, definitely the last.

Prior to reading it, I had a sneaking suspicion that Snape was the HBP... why the whole use of the Potions text on the Adult edition? ...maybe indicating the HBP had something to do with Potions. Prince... royalty - who would see themselves as royalty... purebloods. It was the 'half-blood' bit that threw me out... so Snape is a half blood like Harry and Voldemort as well? Interesting...
During the reading of the book... I was trying to confirm my theory - it was pretty easy when the HBP's book was a POTIONS text,  it was mentioned earlier (by Sirius?) that Snape knew all manner of Dark curses and stuff like that in school. I was certain that it was him when Harry used the slashing curse on Malfoy and Snape healed him straight away... obviously familiar with the curse and of course, Harry's outstanding performance in Potions.

I loved the Voldemort backstory Brilliant piece of imagination re. the Horcruxes... I'll need to brainstorm R.A.B for a bit as I finished to beeok at 1am and am still trying to digest it all now - I should be in bed but I needed to get this out before my brain burst.

I agree with Inger and Jeff... I think that the whole Snape turning bad plot is too obvious - doesn't JK like her twists? I thought exactly the same when Snape killed Dumbledore... I thought it might have been part of an elaborate plot and it might have been someone using Polyjuice potion (maybe Aberforth?) to imitate Dumbledore, but after his portrait appeared in his office, I resigned myself to the inevitable :'( :'( :'(

A few random thoughts - this is just the thing that I could imagine Dumbledore doing - sacrificing himself for 'the greater good'. Interesting about Draco - d'you reckon that he may be having second thoughts about becoming a DE? How did DD hurt his hand (we never will find out). Who will he leave his belongings to (Fawkes??) - more importantly, will he leave something to Harry that will help himin his fight?

And who is going to be Harry's 'guardian' now? McGonagall? Lupin? He's nowhere near experienced nor able anough to just go out to look for Voldemort and defeat him by himself. I also think that Harry is more powerful than his everyday performance lets on... after all, did you all note what Snape said to Harry: 'I underestimated you Potter' and then he made a comment about how he could use powerful Dark magic. And why was Harry able to perform the slashing curse without practising it before? And if he has difficulty performing such things as turning vineager into wine, why this piece of magic (which I presume is much more complex) with such ease? And the Crucio curse that he performed on Bellatrix at the Ministry in OoTP - he could obviously do it - it DID work I assume for a few seconds, but Bellatrix said that he had to have that hatred, the desire to hurt someone for it to work. Yet 'Moody' said in GoF that even if the whole class pointed their wands at him and said the curse he'd not even get a nosebleed as it needed a powerful bit of Dark magic for it to work fully. I think that Harry may have inherited some of this ability from Voldemort. So maybe if he set his mind to it he could do it, he could do it properly - in that case, could he perform the ultimate Dark magic Avada Kedavra??.

[Morningangel-Iola]

Didn't DD mangle his hand with the ring? Which he said Snape sorted so why didn't Snape kill him then or let him die? I think it was important Harry saw DD being killed thats why his immoblised him and he knew the spell would break with his death.

I was sure JK herself had told us Snape was a Pureblood did I imgaine it 

[ferdinand_the_yak]

I know that the ring did it, but what happened is my question. I mean, Harry destroyed Riddle's diary without a scratch from it (the diary itself, I mean) so I wonder what enchantments were on the ring.

Dumbledore must have known that he was going to die... why would he have immobilised Harry and not allowed him to fight, but to watch? How depressing :'(

Another - Malfoy crying on Myrtle's shoulder? I can't believe Voldemort wanted him to kill Dumbledore - I thought Narcissa was referring to Harry at the start. I feel almost sorry for him

[grecopa]

I have to agree with Greenpaw and others about Snape.  I'm not ready to give up on him yet.  Dumbledore said "Severus, please"  as if he was asking Snape to kill him.  He never said "Severus, no".  And I don't think we know the true reason that Dumbledore trusted Snape.  There must be something more because it would be pretty lame if what he told Harry was the whole story.  But I really thought that Snape would die at the end by stopping Mayfoy and breaking the promise.  What a shocker to me!  Overall, I'm kind of numb about the whole ending.  I think I need a little time to digest it all!  I'm not too suprised about Harry/Ginny or Ron/Hermione getting together.  What I was suprised about was Fleur sticking with Bill.  I thought for sure that she would take one look at him and run for the door  She's not as superficial as I thought and the whole scene was very touching.

[ferdinand_the_yak]

Maybe he meant 'Severus, please don't do it? But I'm like you, I am hoping that he will redeem himself somewhat in Book 7. Maybe there are more clues in the Pensieve as to why DD trusts Snape? I just don't think Harry could ever forgive him regardless though. Do you think Harry is going to let on to anyone about what he was doing with DD, after all, he says that he won't, but DD never actually said he couldn't tell anyone if he died, did he? Surely he wouldn't expect Ron and Hermione alone could help Harry. Do you reckon that he should at least tell McGonagall? I think that she would be the best person tho tell, she was fiercely loyal to DD and she is now also Headmistress. She would be very disapproving that he won't be returning to Hogwarts, I think he needs as much training as possible... so maybe she could be there in a mentor like role?

I was also very touched that Fleur is going to stick with Bill and I got quite teary when Mrs Weasley finally accepted her as part of the family at the end

[siriusdogstar]

Well..................!!!

That has to be about the best book EVER written!  I read in in 12 hours - not on purpose but because I just couldn't put it down.  I was starving by the time I finished.

I cried and cried at the end.

Never - NEVER - has their been a book with such a cliff-hanger ending and a WHOLE TWO YEARS to wait before the next one!  Oh God - I'll never survive!

I put my mind to the R.A.B. as well and the only candidate I could come up with was Regulus Black.  Any good, do you think?

I agree with the person who says we have yet to learn about Snape's real commitments - mostly because he took care of Lupin in his transformation phases and substituted the Veritaserum for Harry at the behest of the Order.  I think we still have more to learn.  Could Draco be Snape's son and not Lucius's?  Do you think he had 'a thing' for Narcissa? Much is made of Snape's greasy black hair but Narcissa is blonde so he could have taken after her. A very wild speculation but veerrrryy interesting.

It was not Dumbledore's style to plead with Snape - this is an absolute fact.  He has said all the way through there are much worse things than death.  It could be argued that when you are faced with the actual thing its quite another matter but I don't think Dumbledore was such a weak character.  He would have faced his own death as calmly as he faced every other disaster in his life.

Now I have dashed through it I shall sit down this afternoon and give it my full attention.  I read OOTP like this and didn't think much of it.  With nothing else to read, I started reading it again six months later.  Since, I have re-read it six time and the last six chapters numerous times on top of that (I kept finding new clues in it).  But I think this one is every better on one reading so just think how I'll feel six readings down the line!

[Morningangel-Iola]

Yes I really think he should have told McG she was always right behind DD and his strongest supporter.

[Sharon]

That was truley amazing and I am in the 'Snape is a good guy' camp.

I am so pleased some of you had thoughts on RAB.  I was drawing a complete blank.

One bit troubling me is the ring.  Dumbeldore is able to sense magic.  Therefore he would have known the ring had the horacrux.  But likewise wouldn't he have known it was cursed?  Even if he didn't know he would surely have suspected there were protective spells on it.  Why then did he wear it at all.  When he visted Horace Slughorn he was wearing it then.  Bit strange for him to keep it as a 'trophy' after all he said about Voldemort.

My thoery why Dumbeldore told Harry to tell no one of the  horacruxes is that he knew one of the inner circle was a Death Eater, just not which one (and no not Snape  ).

[kbmum]

My guess is that wearing the ring didn't damaged Dumbledore's hand.  It might have been the effect of destroying the piece of soul inside.  What worries me is that Dumbledore never told Harry how to destroy the Horcruxes.

I agree with Sharon -- some trusted member of the Order is a Death Eater or spying for Voldemort.  Harry was right not to tell McGonagall.  I don't think she's the traitor, but she might in some way try to interfere or prevent Harry from doing what he has to do.