UNITE to Let Artbox know what we think.

[Guest]

[ferdinand_the_yak]

Just a silly question.... I can't read this thread as my eyes are going funny (too much research;)). But how are we intending to 'sign' this document?

Email? Username? Real name? Especially as I highly doubt that you are going to send one piece of paper around the world (actually, that could be quite fun )

I just don't think that Artbox are going to look at a list with names like ferdinand_the_yak and lbe highly influenced

[TOMUNIQUE]

HI everyone I will give you my take for what its worth. I have owned two card companies and also am a wholesaler and eBay dealer and also I am starting a new card company. From a manufacturer standpoint you have to understand this is a business and they are in this to make money.Some manufacturers care and try to please the consumer but that is a very difficult thing to do. Case in point. Artbox makes a really nice product in the update and  puts in so many different elements but most are very unhappy unless they land the prized autograph or prop card etc.,They did not over produce this product. You and I pre ordered this product and the greed set in from what the prices went for in the first series. Think about it. Would the orders have been so huge if not for the first series being so short printed. Everyone was caught off guard and didn't use there heads when ordering the update set.So lets put most of the blame on us dealers and collectors.Like I said its a business and if you order the product they are going to print and sell the product.Artbox does care as I talk to them all the time and have told them what I have heard and read here. I think they will shoot themselves in the foot if they don't short print this next series. But let me ask all of us dealers and collectors this question. If they short the product and the demand is there and the price goes up too high we will have so many people who will be upset because of the high prices. it is very tough to please everyone. just think about this. the triple autograph sold for close to $2000. isn't that nuts?? But we the dealers and collectors set that price not Artbox.Input is very great to a card company and if they listen even better. If they don't then you have the choice not to support them look at both sides not just one side.Sorry to be long winded and I'm not the greatest writer in the world but I hope you get my drift  . Just put you're ideas all together (which a lot of them are great) and submit them and see what happens.  thanks Tom

[mcgonagall]

Hi Tom,
            I do understand what you are saying . But from my point of view is I live in australia and artbox doesn't  sell the boxes here ,. I have to find a seller in the US to get my one or two boxes from including postage to here . Now with all that done. My first box arrives and it was a dud my second boxes arrives it is a costume card i am more that happy with it. it was on corlieus fudge but to me that is great.
Now you tell me why after saving my money ( as a mum of 6 kids )
that i should be happy to receive a dud box . All i would really like is for artbox to guarentee that i will never get another dud box.

I think that is not to much to ask really

[kbmum]

Tom, you make some excellent points.  This is a business, and it's all about supply and demand.  Artbox gets no direct benefit from the secondary market (other than if dealers do well selling the cards, they'll be more likely to buy Artbox product in the future).  The company makes money when distributors order their products.  If there is a big demand for a release, they'd be foolish not to produce enough to meet the demand.

I know a lot of people got burned by the update, but as a collector, I love the set.  The cards look good and there's something for everyone.  I've never been able to buy that many inserts for so little money.  Yet, people rave over the first set, and I don't like it nearly as much as the update.  There are too many cards with a short print run, putting their prices out of reach, and those cards are mostly candy wrappers.  The update is much more interesting with its wider variety of cards.

As mcgonagall said, one of the bigger problems is dud boxes.  It happened with the first set as well as the update.  Surely there's some way Artbox can address this issue?

We still don't have much info about SS, but something tells me that it will be more like the first POA set.

[TOMUNIQUE]

as far as dud boxes who decides this?? most boxes cost the same for every product made today. some have an auto or sketch,chase card or two and a set or two.if you get a costume card that isn't rare it is considered a dud?? the problem was too many rare cards and nice common costume cards were called a dud. again you will never please everybody. most costume,autograph,sketch cards cost the manufacturer the same money to make. granted some are more plentiful but the cost is still the same.I repeat you cannot please everyone. there will always be someone who didn't like what they got. I break so many cases and I can tell you I too get very frustrated when the cases don't break in my favor but I understand that's the nature of this card business. if every box was the same no one would collect any of this.

[Anna]

What kbmum referred to as a dud box is a box that contained no costume, prop, creature, auto or filmcard.  A dud box only had base cards and foil chase cards.

[mcgonagall]

A dud box to me is when you get no costume no auto no prop no creature cards you only get 1 base set and 3 chase cards.

that is a dud box

[TOMUNIQUE]

if that is a dud box then i would also say shame on them!!!no excuse for that!!

[mcgonagall]

that was exactly what i got in the first box of POA update hobby box i got

nope i got that wrong i receive 2 base set in that first box

[erevine]

Tom, I,m sure greed played a factor in the preorder of cases of the update set for many dealers, and maybe even for the collectors as well as we saw the price of a box of the original set soar to $200.00 plus on eBay.(and you are right, who sets these prices but the folks who collect the cards, not the card manufacturer) Why not take advantage of what seemed a bargain in purchasing a case of Update cards for $590.00 if you thought you might be able to sell a box on eBay for $200.00 or even at $100.00. Quite a profit. Then we found out the print run was almost triple the first set, although I agree the update set has a much better selection of cards. Well the rest is history in my mind the cards have sold as low as $45.00 a box on eBay. As a collector I was banking on a profit from my purchase to obtain the cards I really wanted, so I took a chance even after reading some of the horrible results people were getting opening there cases here on the shack. But I opened my case anyway. The most impressive card I got from the whole case was a double Harry and Cedric costume card. I must say none of my boxes were duds, every box had a least one costume,autograph,or prop card and one box even had a prop and a film card. The total value of the cards according to the Yakshack value guide amounted to $245.65. which again was prices set by collectors not the manufacturer. All I am asking is for Artbox to be upfront with its printruns, card insertions, and rate of insertions. Other card companies do this why not artbox? I for one will not be burned again with a preorder of anything for Artbox. I will sit on the sidelines and watch what happens and read all the tibbits and forecast on the internet and then I will purchase what I like on ebay from whom I wish. It seem if you wait long enough even shortrun products come down in price.
  ;)http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=73570&item=6159225961&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

[TOMUNIQUE]

 a lot of people forget and i always have told people who ask me about what they think it will be worth now or later. i tell them buy and collect the cards because you like them not because they are worth more or less then you paid. remember this is called a hobby.i collected arcade machines for years bought new ones etc. when i sold them i lost half the value on my purchase. i was not mad at anyone because these machines were not worth the price i bought them for becuase i liked to collect and play them.almost everything we buy in life cars,clothes,you name it are worth less the day we pay for them.

[ferdinand_the_yak]

I could not agree more Tom, the cards I collect are for the hobby, not to sell later. Most of my collection I plan to keep permanently

Of course it would be far more satisfying to pull a Harry autograph over a Harry costume, but for me, the thrill of pulling a chase card overrides the desire to always have profitable buy-sell ratios:)

[mcgonagall]

It is the same with me I collect for me and my kids we have no intention of selling the cards we get. unless i pull double of a card i already have.

That is why I want a guarentee from artbox about no duds

[ztaylork]

I feel that no matter what the value of the cards are, or will be in the future Artbox should be smart enough to see that the first set created a huge tweak in the supply and demand curve, and people ordered a lot more of the update set, and rather than push the supply all the way to in fact exceed demand, they should have economists on their staff that explain that by creating an amount of product that will still spark growth in the market and possibly grow the demand curve for this coming up set, but rather they fed off the greed of the collector and in fact the demand curve has shrunk right back to where it was for the first set.  And if they don't get it right we could be on a roller coster ride of short printed set, then overprinted set.  My beef is the same as any collector here, there are soooo many cards in this set numbered over 1,000, I should be pulling at least 1 costume in every box opened.  Inkworks has a costume and autograph in most of the boxes of their product, why can't artbox do something similar.  I never thought that I would say even topps does a better job at making the boxes at least feel like you have a sporting chance to pull something good to add to your colllection besides 5 foil cards and a box topper.  The update set had a lot of great cards that will forever remain in my collection, but overall artbox could have done a lot better with this set to make collectors happy.  just my thoughts

ztaylork

[erevine]

Tom, apparently I did not make myself completely clear in my previous posting. I collect for the true joy of collecting also. But maybe unlike some folks have limited funds. I was trying to beat the curve by buying a case of the update set. Hoping to sell the boxes unopened at a profit. I bought  all of my collection on ebay one card at a time and feel I have put together a rather impressive collection which I hope I will never have to sell. I have been hooked on Harry Potter since the first book, i thought it was a brillant work. When I told you i decided to open the case i got it was only after the box prices dropped to $45.00 a box on ebay and some of the cards that I had not already purchased remained in my collection, such as Cedrics costume card, Harry's Far away costume card, and Lupin's Dark shirt.  The rest I returned to eBay to try to recoup what funds I could to purchase more cards. The point I am trying to get across is Artbox needs to be more consistent or more forecoming with its costumers. I STILL THINK ARTBOX NEEDS TO BE UPFRONT WITH THE PRINTRUN, INSERTS, AND  CARD RATIOS.  I will continue to admire and collect  there products since they have the franchise on the Harry Potter Film Cards and I am just a Harry Potter freak.                dave

[TOMUNIQUE]

again collectors will decide the price on what they are willing to pay for an item.most series go down in price from when they are first released. that's just the way it is. when the product is over produced you do not have the collectors or dealers to buy it up and the price drops.I know people who ordered cases from me and were only box buyers and I asked them why?? the reason is they thought because the first series was so great they would take a chance on the second series. I told them that as long as I have been in this business that when a first series is hot and goes up in price everyone jumps on the second series and it turns to mush.the problem also is on eBay. you have dealers and collectors selling there cards and they are not a real business and don't care what they sell these cards for. I am a business and must compete with collectors and dealers who sell and don't pay any taxes. if this was a site where everybody had to pay there fair share of taxes you would also see different prices.

[Roz]

the problem also is on eBay. you have dealers and collectors selling there cards and they are not a real business and don't care what they sell these cards for. I am a business and must compete with collectors and dealers who sell and don't pay any taxes. if this was a site where everybody had to pay there fair share of taxes you would also see different prices.

This is actually a valid point, we are trying to recoup costs from our doubles to purchase more cards, not usually make a profit  

[TOMUNIQUE]

the internet has made it great for the consumer but horrible for the real business person. all of us work for a living and if most other businesses were run like the card business we would all be in big trouble and looking for employment.most other businesses you cannot order direct from as they protect there distributors and dealers. not in the card business.

[erevine]

Tom, I not sure I understand what you are saying. Do you mean i can order directly from Artbox? I don't think so. I believe you have to have a business license and in some cases show pictures of a storefront and  the inside of your store before a card company would considered selling to you and then I don't believe Artbox would sell directly to the business owner, since they have a distributorship set up, who is allow to sell retail to the public and wholesale to the dealers who meet the above requirements. If this is not correct please let me know as I had thought of opening a business to be able to get the wholesale price for cards. In my state of West Virginia if you become a Business to sell cards you have to keep meticulous tax records and the rate is 6%.  I have checked many options to add to my HP collection at a reasonable price and found the only alternation is eBay at this point. Some times you get lucky on a card, some times you pay more that you wish. Prehaps since you have been in the business you would like to share with our fellow shackers what you as a card producer might sell your product to a distributor for, and what that distributor might sell that product wholesale to a business for, as compared to retail to an individual. If not you could you PM me as I am still very interested in opening a business and would not want to jump in until I have heard from an expert. Thanks, dave

[TOMUNIQUE]

have to just say not all companies do this (a few do which i will not name) case closed tom