The prices of the big 4!

[Guest]

[Roz]

What do you guys think?

Yes $2000 is a lot of money but if you consider it's the price of 3-4 cases (depending on where you live) I don't think it's so bad. And in fact it seems like the prices of the big autos are creeping up with every auction - look at this

Triple -

1st Sold - $1950, 2nd Sold, $1999.99 (BIN) 3rd Sold $2074

Dan auto -

1st Sold - $842, 2nd Sold, $1225 (the first one on ebay.co.uk stands at $1326 with 5 days to go and still has not met it's reserve!!!)

Rupert auto

1st Sold - $585, 2nd Sold $600(BIN), 3rd Sold $655


I think as people are opening their cases they are realising just how difficult these autos are to get hold of. Of course their future value will probably always be high but it will depend a little on whether they sign in more sets. Artbox have shown that they are not afraid to repeat cards with Hermione's second auto and the second daily prophet card!

[frd]

      As a general rule of thumb (never did understand this saying  ), if I pull one of the "rare" Autographs in the boxes/cases I open, then I go forward to complete the Autograph set. If I don't pull one of these, then the Autographs that I did pull become trade bait. It is very hard for me to justify $2K to my wife for 1 card (geez, $50 is alot to her for me to spend on cards at all ).

[savage727]

You bring up a great point FRD.  At what point do you realize you are spending way too much for cards?  When does it affect your family?  I am constantly amazed reading posts by people here who spend money like it is water.  Are there no conquences to this?  Collecting is fun but not at the price of hurting your finances and family.   You may think you are investing but remember they are in the end only pieces of cardboard and only worth what the market will pay at the time you decide to sell.  

[samwise16]

You bring up a great point FRD.  At what point do you realize you are spending way too much for cards?  When does it affect your family?  I am constantly amazed reading posts by people here who spend money like it is water.  Are there no conquences to this?  Collecting is fun but not at the price of hurting your finances and family.   You may think you are investing but remember they are in the end only pieces of cardboard and only worth what the market will pay at the time you decide to sell.  

I agree, I'm in a lot of debt and only 17, it's worrying, I think its time i get abck to collecting and start putting other things first sucjh as driving lessons  

[sonarghost]

I do agree in many cases people do tend to get "carried away" at times but one important thing about those who spend money like it's water is that money is always relative. What is cheap to me might be expensive to others and vice versa.  

[Roz]

Very much so!

I regard cars as a waste of money. But houses as an investment (though I am scarder about investing in one of those... but I'll get around to it soon I promise).

But to be honest with you $2000 for a card signed by the 3 major characters in 3 very big movies (and definitely 4 movies in all - although what happens after that I am not sure). I wonder whether the price of these cards will go down after the actors who play them are changed  

[savage727]

Sonarghost:

I can appreciate what you are saying but when you read about people spending X amount for Trilogy, then X amount for Harry Potter, then X amount for Star Wars, all within a very short time frame you are not talking about your average collector.  I am talking about the purchase of cases here and not boxes.  If spending that kind of money is small change to you then you are in a very small minority of the human race that can afford to spend that kind of money.  I can't because I have obligations to my family and all the outstanding expenses that go with home ownership and everyday living.  I just cannot comprehend spending the kind of cash for a Triple or other high value card when I know what else I could purchase for that kind of money examples being a world cruise on the Queen Mary, one hell of a sound system or HD LCD Projection TV, 4 weeks in Hawaii - you get my drift.    I mean seriously what do you folks that own these high value cards do with them?  Do you keep them on your mantle and look at them every day or are they packed away in some binder on your bookshelf?  I am not talking about the people who are in the business to buy and sell - I understand their motivation.  

[sonarghost]

I truly understand what you are saying savage. Spending that kind of money is not small change to me but I know people that think it is! I guess that is why I see it that way (and yes I know they are the minority) and I think those are mainly the kind of people that are buying the big 4 autos in particular.

[frd]

You may think you are investing but remember they are in the end only pieces of cardboard and only worth what the market will pay at the time you decide to sell

For me personally - - - I am not into investing. I strictly like having nice cards in my collection. I have been collecting for nearly 15 years. I love the pursuit of the high dollar card. But way back when, before 1997, there weren’t cards like these to be found (Autograph Cards as they have evolved, Costume Cards, Prop Cards, Sketch Cards, and so on).

There were some Autographs, but they were signed by the Artists who drew the characters featured in the set (Brian Pulido & Steven Hughes for Lady Death, William Tucci for Shi, and so on), and these are only worth around $50 each. It is true that trading card collecting has evolved, and the only thing I am sad about (but participate in immensely) was the introduction of e-Bay. I would say 97% of my dealings on e-Bay have been purchases, because I know these cards are hard to find.

As for the costs involved - - - well, I am in a “special case” right now. I bought a house 7 years ago for real cheap. I just got a Home Equity Line of Credit, which is allowing me to “secretly” buy 2 extra cases. I manage the finances, and told my wife I was buying 1 case & got caught up in the excitement. As a result, I bought 2 extra cases, something I would not have been able to do 2 or 3 weeks ago.
been collecting for nearly 15 years.

[savage727]

Hello FRD:

Good luck with your cases, I really hope you pull some of the high value cards.  

Same goes for you Sonarghost.  

[beckham1]

I think most people make decisions on what they buy based on the info they are told.  I think many people stretched the limits on what they normally would have bought on the update set thinking worst case scenario you are going to get 3 props, 2 autos and 10 costume cards as well as film cards, foils etc.  

I know I figured I could get value out of the cases I bought at the worst.  Now with the production so high and the big autos so hard to get and many cases not containing anything under /700 it is a little bit of a disappointment IMO.  I am still trying to decide if I will open the couple other cases I will be getting this week or selling the boxes - I love to open the packs and the cards are great, but I don't want to end up with 5 more costumes over /2000 another Earnie auto redemption, 2 more sleeping bag props and divination class material....etc..etc.

The great thing about the first set was you pretty much knew you were going to get a low #'d prop card under 200 in a case and some great auto's (5 or so) and no costumes over 1300.  Of course that is what we all based our purchase on and should have known better as many of us are LOTR collectors also.  

Either way I don't spend my money at the bar (which I used to ALOT) so this is my hobby now.  I don't think it is that bad when at least I get something back other than a hangover and other surprises in the morning...

Anyway, I just find it as a fun hobby, luckly being single and without many financial obligations other than my house payment, college loans, and regular bills I can enjoy it without a lot of worry.   I decided to get a little extra Harry Potter Update because there are no releases of LOTR to worry about in the future and the next HP will not be out for a while.  Anyway I wouldn't spend $2500 for a triple and if I pulled it I would sell it as I don't have a master set from the first anyway.  Or I would consider trading it for a master set of FOTR

[savage727]

Hi Beckham:

Do you or anyone reading this know roughly to date how many of the high value cards have been pulled like the Triple Auto and the 3 main actor cards?  I think it would help many out there decide if it was worth the gamble to open boxes or cases or to sell what unopened product they have.

Good luck to all Forum members who still have boxes/cases to open.  I would love to see you folks get the good cards!  

[Choice of Lúthien]

Savage,
I hear you on people spending that much money. As people have suggested, I think it comes down to a matter of priorities in many ways--what do you want to do with what money you have.
I used to have all of the FOTR/TT (expect FOTR merry) and some of the ROTK autos but I ended up selling them off gradually. I just couldnt' justify that much money on a card with my limited finances, being a student and all. I'd rather spend my little money going to things like the oscar party or traveling around.
That being said, some people do have more money than others. If there is one thing I've learned from ebay it's that there are plenty of people with lots of money to spend on whatever they want. It's crazy  

[beckham1]

Thats funny I was just thinking about FOTR auto's this mornining.  It is funny how so many people who had these auto's and aquired them cheaply have sold them off.  I think that is the natural trend when a set gets tough or expensive to put together.  I think you will (and have) seen many people give up and put all the HP POA cards up for auction.

Also when you are opening a $55 box and getting a $13 lupin jacket and foils and boxtoppers with no value because everyone has them.  I think most give up from there as they can't get the money they spent back.

It seems there are very few who keep their sets for the long haul.  I think it is ok to do what is best for the individual collector, and when a new set of interest comes out many will sell there old sets to fund the new one.  

I just hope that with the next set that there will be more collector interest and less investor interest.  I will sell off my doubles and the cards I don't want to keep, but those who just bought to open cases and sell everything they pull for a profit have essentially tipped the balance of supply vs demand.  (I don't blame the speculator here, but it is a fact)  There just aren't enough HP collectors (old enough to have cash to spend) to support the market flood of update cards.

[gimli]

As you know i have opened 330 boxes of this product and although I am a dealer and wish to make a profit I opened the case I had with one thing in mind to make a master set and then try and make some money back. I have listed a few things on ebay at what I think they are worth and most have not sold. So what do I do well I have decided to keep hold of these cards for a while I will list the odd card on ebay and test the market but I do think that these cards will rise in value.

I said a few weeks before the product arrived that I didn't think i would be able to make a master set from the cases I ordered and Guess what I was right. I opened 330 boxes and ended up 2 cards short of a master set. Am I annoyed about this no not really I paid my money and hoped for the best at least it wasn't a repeat of the Harry Potter and the sorcerers stone set. How many of us have a master set of that. I don't I still need 5 foils do i care if i comeplete it. NO not at all. This set is different we might not have got every thing we wanted from it but the card design and range of cards is fantastic again. If we forget about how much was produced and how many Lupins we pulled and look at the cards, ask yourself are they what you expected. and i have to say they are great designed cards.

this set will rise in value once all the product is out there and people realise how hard it is to pull a lot of the cards. £20 for an auto is silly when there is 2 per case these are all as rare as a Fellowship merry in my opinion and to pay £1500 for a triple is value compared to the price of a fellowship merry IMO when looking at numbers produced.

that is not to say i think the triple is cheap I have as little money most of the time as the next person.  

[savage727]

This is fascinating stuff!!  I appreciate everyone's comments and I am learning as I read them.  I think I read on one post somewhere in the Harry Potter area that Artbox is reading or following what is being said here.  Is that true to anyone's knowledge?  If it is has anyone here either Collector or Dealer thought to approach Artbox with constructive criticism and or ideas for future sets.  I mean you folks are the experts and I would think input as to what you would like to see in future cards/sets/autos would be valuable market research for them.   I think it would be cool to assemble a group of you to share your ideas with Artbox.  What do you think?  

[ferdinand_the_yak]

It would be great, especially as I do not know of any other site that has as in depth a coverage of this and the previous set as this one. The yakshack has indeed become a valuable resource! It would be helpful if anyone out there have a contact with 'higher up' in Artbox or a link to Artbox - we could certainly give them a few ideas!

[darren1]

I think that it is interesting that a ''LOT'' of cases have been opened now and that the big 4 cards seem to be even rarer than most people first thought. The question remains will the card rise and i believe that they will and by a lot but it may take time. If you go back i think 10 years ago Star Trek Insurrection came out by Skybox and inserted was a Brent Spiner Auto card, first one he did. It is believed he only signed 90-100 of these cards and this card is very very rare, it pissed off a lot of ST collectors at the time. What was it worth then probebly £500 whats it worth now, probebly £1500. Harder to say becuase he has signed 20 or more cards since then in loads of different series so its diluted his value. But its different with Potter as i was advised that Radcliffes card was a one off and he will NOT sign again for any future series. So again another point,is a potter movie auto set without the main charactor as collectible. Yes it is but i believe the tripple card to be the shortest printed non sport auto and probebly the hardest to find. Its not a 1/1 which i technically dont count as showing truw values, how can a president kennedy card 1/1 sell for $40,000 when you can buy a signed letter from the president for less than $700, makes no sense.
What this set has done though i believe is give people a little perspective as to what they may or may not do in 2005. If there are two series next year or 3 at most, will people be so eager to buy so much. It all depends on whats in the product. Would people be complaining if they bought 20 cases and got 2 tripples. Its all luck of the draw, if the cases come in and you happen to get random cases that have no big cards out of 25 you bought its bad luck, but the next person who bought 2 cases may get two cases with 2 big cards, its all down to luck.
I think people are holding back to see how the prices hold and they will hold and rise but it will take time. The last set was probebly the fist set where the average Joe made good money selling what they didnt want and people thought it would replicate accross to this set. Having said all of that Chris as a collector and dealer overall seems happy with what he got out of 33 cases.
I know one dealer who bought 5 cases and sold 4 boxes out of those 5 and there was a tripple in the 4 boxes that he sold - he was pissed !!

[ferdinand_the_yak]

Thanks for your insight Darren Its interesting that Dan will be unlikely to sign for future sets... but I think there are other such major characters out there that it should be ok (and who knows - he may change his mind )

I know one dealer who bought 5 cases and sold 4 boxes out of those 5 and there was a tripple in the 4 boxes that he sold - he was pissed !!

  What did the buyer do - send an email to the seller and go 'HA HA!' If it were me, I'd say nothing to the dealer (what's the point of making them feel bad?) but I would go crazy on this forum for sure!

It is good that the triple is in boxes - for a while there was speculation they would be a case incentive - gives the ordinary collector a chance at the big ones

[lurtz]

To be honest with you Darren I think most people are prepared to take the luck of the draw with the cases that’s part of the fun and high’s and low’s of collecting. What I find is putting people off more than any thing is Artbox are failing to meet minimum expectations

My experience a lone
None of the San Diego tins had a complete set in (they made a mistake time to learn)
Cases with No auto (boy is that bad but we know that’s happens)
12 tins said to guarantee 2 different costume cards NOT EVEN ONE (just not acceptable)

With all the technology we have in the world to get the correct circulation of inserts is not rocket science but some is not even attempting to learn by their mistakes. As always just my view and seriously considering not collecting these in the future.

It’s a shame because I think that’s it is a truly brilliant set with not only all different types of cards but affordable for all collectors from serious collectors to the kid on the street.