eBay: Big changes in pricing, PayPal and shipping cost limits

[Guest]

[kbmum]

Whoa -- eBay announced today some big changes for the site.

1) Starting in late October, buyers will not be able to pay by check or money order and all sellers will have to accept PayPal.  (Looks like eBay decided to go ahead with this in the U.S., despite not being able to do it in Australia).  eBay cites a statistic that people who pay via checks and money orders are 80 percent more likely to not receive an item.  This is ridiculous!

2) Starting September 16, all fixed price listings (Buy It Now) will cost 35 cents, regardless of the price placed on the item.  The listing duration will be 30 days, instead of seven.  However, it appears that eBay will charge more in final value fees to make up for this.

3) If you sell in the books, video games, music, or DVDs/movies categories and use pre-filled item information, there's a special Buy It Now holiday rate of 5 cents per listing through the end of the year.

4) Starting in October, there will be shipping limits for most items in the books, video games, music, or DVDs/movies categories.  It sounds like a great idea, but eBay admits that there will be times when its maximums will not cover a seller's true shipping and handling cost.  However, if the item is unusually large or heavy, or more than one item is sold in a bundle, then the seller has to use the shipping calculator to charge actual costs.  Another "suggestion" is that sellers add to the item price any shipping costs that are above the maximum.

http://pages.ebay.com/sell/August2008Update/MaxShipping/

5) Starting October 1 through the end of the year, sellers can receive subtitles for free if the listing offers free shipping.

6) Starting November 1, sellers will need at least a 4.3 DSR (Detailed Seller Rating -- the star ratings) in order to sell on eBay.

There are so many changes here, it took me quite a while to read through it all and figure out exactly what eBay is doing.  Screwing sellers again, basically.   There is more info here, as well as links to even more information:

http://www2.ebay.com/aw/core/200808.shtml#2008-08-20070116

[tialessa]

Damn, that's just wrong!

And looking at the max costs - $4 for magazine back issues.  You cannot ship them media mail.  P/M is more than that & depending on weight, so is 1st class mail.  That blows!

[kbmum]

Why can't magazines be shipped media mail?  Someone on an eBay forum posted that the actual cost of shipping certain books would be more than the max eBay allows.  An eBay official told her to add the extra cost to the BIN or opening bid.  Of course, this means that eBay gets more money for its final value fees.  At the very least, eBay should allow a max for a Priority Mail flat rate envelope that is the actual cost of PM.  I wanted to list a bunch of cards in October and November, but I think it would be best to do that in September before the new policies are in place.

Someone just asked me about the new fees, so I did the math.  Read and weep:

An item sells for $9.99 with a $3 shipping, listed on the eBay U.S. site.

0.35 eBay listing fee
1.20 eBay final value fee
0.68 PayPal fees

Grand total:  $2.23 in fees

Unless I've made a mistake with the math, that's 22 percent of the sale lost to fees.

Now, let's look at an items that sells for $49.99 with $3 shipping.

0.35 eBay listing fee (starting the auction at $9.99 or listing it as a BIN under the new fee structure for the fall)
6.00 eBay final value fee
6.66 PayPal fees

Grand total: $13.01 in fees

Again, if my math is correct, that's 26 percent of the sale lost to fees.

Here are some tables that explain the fee changes.

http://pages.ebay.com/sell/August2008Update/BasicFees/

[blackcat20]

wow, that is harsh! I guess you guys have to band together and protest against it the same way we did here in Australia....but by the look of it, the changes they are implementing in the US are even worse!

[kbmum]

I'm not sure what government agency to take this to.

[ferdinand_the_yak]

The ACCC (Aust Competition and Consumer Commission) took it up for us - do you have a similar organisation in the US?

According to the ACCC, it

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission is an independent statutory authority. It was formed in 1995 to administer the Trade Practices Act 1974 and other acts.

The ACCC promotes competition and fair trade in the market place to benefit consumers, business and the community. It also regulates national infrastructure industries. Its primary responsibility is to ensure that individuals and businesses comply with the Commonwealth's competition, fair trading and consumer protection laws.

[kbmum]

Aha!  That would be the FTC, Federal Trade Commission, in the U.S.  Time to file a complaint.

Check this out.  eBay is now stating that sellers CAN accept paper payments (money orders and checks), but they can't state this in their listing.

http://workshops.ebay.com/thread.jspa?threadID=13000000235&tstart=0&mod=1219278709135

Jim "Griff" Griffith, eBay's Dean of Education, wrote, "Seller are free to accept any payment type request a buyer might send them but post October, they will not be able to offer the option of checks or money orders in their listings or their email to buyers."

This is an attempt to get around the anti-trust laws in this country.

[ferdinand_the_yak]

Are you sure it's not April 1 today? This is so stupid its not even funny!

How the heck does that make sense? You're allowed to accept paper payments from buyers, but you're not allowed to let them know that? And what about direct deposit options - are they affected by this new policy?

[kbmum]

I know, it's just ridiculous.  We can accept paper payments, but can't in any way, shape, or form inform buyers of this.  If a buyer contacts a seller about money order/check, the seller is then allowed to say whether he or she accepts them.  But, sellers can't initiate the discussion.  I think direct deposits can be made only via PayPal.

[grecopa]

Are we allowed to say "contact me if you would like to pay by another method."?  I REALLY wish there was an alternative to ebay, but it's so big that any other online auction place never gets a fair chance to get started.

[Kindli]

I was just reading the email they sent me, and one of justifications for forcing electronic payments was that it would ensure more items would get paid.  That really doesn't make any sense to me.  If a buyer isn't going to pay, they aren't going to pay, whether it be through mail or the computer.  According to kbmum, it just sounds like they're trying to gouge us a bit more for each item.

When they say we can't inform our buyers of the other payment options, it just isn't an option in the Ebay checkout.  They can't disallow us from putting it in our comments if we send an invoice, though, can they?  I mean, wouldn't that be attempting to prevent free speech?  Okay, that sounds a bit overly dramatic, honestly, wouldn't it?  It's not like additional shipping options are illegal, so they're trying to say we can't tell our buyers about it in an above board, outright fashion isn't legal, is it? 

Also, does anyone know which categories the maximum s&h fees will include?  It said 'select categories' - I started using the shipping calculator for all my items once the post office started changing their rates so often - can anyone tell me which of my categories this is going to affect? 

They say they want to make it easier for us sellers, and they want to help us make profits - but I'm not seeing much evidence of this 'good will' that they keep trying to tell us about. 

Are there any other options for sellers out there?  I know Ebay is huge, but there have to be alternatives, don't there?

[kbmum]

According to the posts made by eBay officials, sellers are not allowed to tell buyers or potential buyers by any means that they accept paper payments.  You can't mention anything in the listing, on the invoice, or initiate contact with buyers that tells them to contact you for other methods of payment.  It's only okay if the buyer asks the seller about other methods of payment.  I hadn't thought about it until Kindli mentioned it, but yes, there does seem to be a free speech infringement here.  Although, if U.S. companies are allowed to read employee e-mail and fire people for sending personal e-mail during work hours, then eBay might be able to set up restrictions for sellers.  Again, it's an anti-trust issue and I'm sure the FTC has all ready been contacted about this.

People on the eBay forums are complaining that paper payments are legal tender and eBay can't disallow them.  So, eBay responded that sellers can take such payments, but they can't advertise the fact.

In the fall, the max shipping will only be for books, video games, music and DVDs/movies.  Make no mistake, eBay is testing this in these categories and if sellers don't revolt and take their business elsewhere, the max will be seen in most categories.  I noticed something odd a few weeks ago when I listed some items.  My shipping for individual cards is $2.75, yet when I submitted my listing, I got a message from eBay to reconsider my shipping price because it was higher than the average for the category!   I was shocked.  Most sellers charge a lot more for shipping, up to $6.00 for First Class Mail.  The sellers who charge $1.00 are throwing the cards in a business envelope instead of properly protecting the item.

There are some book sellers with excellent feedback who are screaming about the max shipping.  They say that eBay knows nothing about their business and never consulted with them.  The argument is that the max for a book is fine for a standard paperback that can be shipped in a bubble mailer, but rare books need a box and packing materials.  Customers will leave negative feedback if a $50+ book arrives with dings because it wasn't shipped in a box.  eBay officials replied that sellers should put the extra shipping into the opening bid/BIN price.  Of course, that means eBay gets to collect fees on part of the shipping cost.

eBay isn't making these changes to make it easier or better for us, and no one believes its PR spin.  What I hate is that this isn't the first time news of a fee increase (final value) has been buried in a mailing that emphasizes a fee decrease (listing for BINs/store inventory).  Is it great that BIN listing fees are capped at 35 cents and the listing is good for 30 days?  Sure.  What sucks is that the final value fee will go from 8.75 percent to 12 or 15 percent, depending on the category.  It's fantastic that eBay is offering 5-cent listing fees for the books, video games, music, and DVDs/movies categories.  They make it very difficult to discover that the final value fees for those categories will nearly double to 15 percent.

Kindli, there are other auction sites, but none of them are good for selling cards.  I've looked at them.  The trading card sections have mostly Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, and low value sport cards.  Kelly is right that eBay is so big, other sites can't compete.  The problem is that everyone, myself included, is afraid to try other sites because they just don't have the number of potential bidders that eBay has.  But, if sellers don't use the other sites, the sites won't be able to grow.

You can look for yourself:

http://auctions.overstock.com/
http://www.ubid.com
http://www.webidz.com
http://www.qxbid.com/index.php

[Kindli]

Isn't there some way to petition Ebay that if they are going to force us to accept electronic forms of payment (such as Paypal) that they lower their fees for accepting fees, since it's no longer a convenience, but a requirement? 

I mean, even if they laugh, shouldn't there be something out there that showed we at least tried to ... negotiate?  Am I being too naive?

[De Orc]

Over here in the UK you have to take paypal as a means of payment but you can still offer alternatives.  As for shipping cost try putting something like " Shipped at actual cost, Contact me for quotes"  If ebay complain just tell them you offer a wide range of shipping options.

[kbmum]

Isn't there some way to petition Ebay that if they are going to force us to accept electronic forms of payment (such as Paypal) that they lower their fees for accepting fees, since it's no longer a convenience, but a requirement? 

I mean, even if they laugh, shouldn't there be something out there that showed we at least tried to ... negotiate?  Am I being too naive?

Petitioning a monopoly won't work.  A lot of sellers are absolutely screaming about this on the eBay forum, but the eBay officials (called "Pinks" because their user IDs are highlighted in pink) just keep spouting the company line about how all of these changes are good for everyone.

Over here in the UK you have to take paypal as a means of payment but you can still offer alternatives.  As for shipping cost try putting something like " Shipped at actual cost, Contact me for quotes"  If ebay complain just tell them you offer a wide range of shipping options.

That rule was being implemented in the US, but starting in October, no seller will be able to actively offer alternative methods of payment.  The pinks were adamant that sellers cannot mention anything in the listings or in e-mail about the possibility of other options.  The buyer has to initiate the conversation about whether the seller accepts paper payments.

[goldenavenger]

I'm completely amazed at the percentage ebay makes off of cards in a fixed price auction. Especially compared to what it used to be. I wish I could sell my cards in the "Computers and Networking" section so the final fee's (%) would be almost half the amount!!

All Other Categories (card section)
$0.01 - $50.00
12.00% of the closing value
 
$50.01 - $1,000.00
12.00% of the initial $50.00, plus 6.00% of the remaining closing value balance ($50.01-$1,000.00)
 
Equal to or Over $1,000.01
12.00% of the initial $50.00, plus 6.00% of the initial $50.01-$1,000.00, plus 2% of the remaining closing value balance ($1,000.01 - closing value)

Like others have mentioned, you then have listing fee's and Paypal fee's. That makes it tough selling cards in a fixed (BIN) auction style, which I like doing from time to time.

I hope things change.......and I mean for the better. 
 

[Roz]

Over here in the UK you have to take paypal as a means of payment but you can still offer alternatives.  As for shipping cost try putting something like " Shipped at actual cost, Contact me for quotes"  If ebay complain just tell them you offer a wide range of shipping options.

That rule was being implemented in the US, but starting in October, no seller will be able to actively offer alternative methods of payment.  The pinks were adamant that sellers cannot mention anything in the listings or in e-mail about the possibility of other options.  The buyer has to initiate the conversation about whether the seller accepts paper payments.

Don't sit too pretty here in the UK - you can bet your 'bottom dollar' that if they can sneak it in under the radar in the US they'll not waste much time in bringing it over here too. eBay are just testing the water.

As it was so delightfully put to me yesterday by another eBay seller (she's a gem) - 'yes I hate it all, but where else would we get this level of exposure except on a nudist beach?'

eBay is big business, really big business. The only way to create competition would be by nuturing small sites in smaller circumstances which then gain popularity and can then be rolled out on a wider scale.

We might all forget that yahoo search was pretty much a monopoly before google came along. It turned out that the NKOTB "google" had been driving yahoo for ages, and they have long since surpassed google. Never give up hope of overtaking the 'monopoly'.

[De Orc]

It wont realy affect me as I only buy these days and am happy to pay via paypal but it is still unfair on those who do not want to take this as a means of payment   

[grecopa]

It would be really great for someone to start a card collecting auction site.  Only cards, sports and non-sports.  A central hub for all buyers and sellers without the ridiculous ebay fees.

[Nienna]

It would be really great for someone to start a card collecting auction site.  Only cards, sports and non-sports.  A central hub for all buyers and sellers without the ridiculous ebay fees.

... you've found your niche in Life Kelly ... who better to start a card collecting auction site than yourself hmmm?