Discusion on the Half-Blood prince character - *Spoiler warning*

[Guest]

[Morningangel-Iola]

So where do you stand? I thought he had gone to the dark side for good after finishing HBP. But after reading comments on here I am siriusly reconsidering. Could Dumbledore really have been so wrong? And would he really have pleeded for his own life? It really doesn't seem likely. I don't think we got the full story of why he trusted Snape it didn't seem right.

So what are you thoughts on the matter?

[kbmum]

Like you, I thought Snape was fully evil.  But I now think there's more than meets the eye.  For example, when Harry is chasing Snape across the Hogwarts grounds and trying to hex him, Snape blocked every one.  He shouted at Harry that it will happen again and again and again until he learns Occlumency and nonverbal spells.  Since when has a Death Eater stopped in the middle of a battle to tell his opponent how to protect himself?

[Roz]

Yep 100% there is more to this than meets the eye.

His hand twitched when he made the unbreakable vow, I believe he knew he had to do it, but did not want to, but alas I believe they were Dumbledore's orders (should it be necessary). Dumbledore would NEVER plead for his own life. Never.

I much the same way as he had made Harry follow his orders on the adventure to the cave Dumbledore was pleading with Snape to do what he had to at the top of the tower.

Dumbledore is exactly the type to think "I am old and have had my time" he has such faith in Snape to become his successor and in time for Harry to be his true successor in defending good and fighting evil. Voldermort will hold Snape in high esteem for completing this task, and since he feared Albus himself this will get Snape right into his confidence, where (I hope) Snape will bring him down from the inside... although I wonder whether JK will take us a long way into the second book before revealing which side Snape is on.

I am siriusly reconsidering

Quality pun

[Morningangel-Iola]

That is a very good point indeed Cindy, not really likely. Also I just thought re Dumbledore he never said Severus please, don't or no, did he? Just Severus please. I also think Dumbledore fininally giving Snape the DADA job was important too (how many people did tunnel impressions when they learnt this?) maybe to make LV think he was on to a winner at least. As far as I can tell Snape didn't hinder them in DADA did he?

[Sharon]

  Well the jury seems to be agreed 

Thing is even though I am a 'Snape is good' girl, I am not entirley convinced how much of this is actually an 'Alan Rickman is good' vote 

I wonder if Snape was giving Harry a final 'lesson' when he was having that duel?  After all as Cindy says not every death eater would give handy hints and tips in the middle of a fight to the death.  Thank you, another thing I hadn't thought of 

One last thought I had (not sure if this is the right place but here goes).  I think Trewlaney may have had another vision.  If Snape was acting on DD orders, DD would have to have had a lot of insider info.  This couldn't have been all from Snape as there were things Snape definately didn't know.  If things actually went the way DD planned ie ultimately getting killed he must have had a very good overview of things.

[renrutha]

I thought the same thing, when HP finds Trelawney by the Room of Requirement she mutters something about impending doom on a tower and that she had tried to discuss this with Firenze but he would not listen.

The problem here is that no one ever believed Trelawney because the only other premonitions she had that were correct she was unaware of what she said afterwards (1 - the big prophecy - 2 - with Harry - the servant will escape stuff).

[Morningangel-Iola]

I'm confused again now. 

"MA: OK, big big big book six question. Is Snape evil?

JKR: [Almost laughing] Well, you've read the book, what do you think?

ES: She's trying to make you say it categorically.

MA: Well, there are conspiracy theorists, and there are people who will claim -

JKR: Cling to some desperate hope [laughter] -

ES: Yes"

From leaky cauldron/muggle net interview. She's laughing  Is its double bluff  Or are we indeed barking up the wrong tree

[Morningangel-Iola]

Right I have reset the poll so we can vote again now we ahve had time to think about it

[Sharon]

Hooray it is decided.  Snape is 100% good    Of course the fact I am the only one that has voted so far might have something to do with that 

Thanks Dawn 

[Morningangel-Iola]

I've put undecided at the moment. As I am SO confused.

[Sharon]

 

  I thought you were a definate Snapite 



note: I love those little shocked smilies 

[Morningangel-Iola]

I am but I really don't know, is he good or bad. I really really don't know

[LikORish-Spider]

I am reading the book for the second time.
Do you notice how in books 1 to 5 that Ron and Hermione were alway agreeing with Harry, at least Ron did.
Harry, the all-knowing, always correct, etc.

Did JKR make them take "stupid" pills over the summer?
Suddenly in book 6 Harry is totally wrong about everything according to Ron and Hermione.

An upon thinking of the title again, "The Half Blood Prince", most of us (Me.) jumped to the conclusion tha it was "a" Prince (royal sense) who was half blood.
If you put it like this, "the half-blood, Evans" (Harry's mom), "the half-blood, Riddle" (Voldemort), then it reveals that "the half-blood, Prince" is a person named Prince, not a royal.
One question I have is why wasn't the title "The Half Blood Snape", except for the obvious slight of hand?
There are early hints in the book that it was Snape. The small writting remark for one. I'm surprised that Harry didn't recognise the handwritting.

[ferdinand_the_yak]

Perhaps Snape's handwriting changed a bit from when he was a kid to his adult style...

[kbmum]

The best description of Snape's handwriting was in OOTP, when Harry sees 15-year-old Snape writing during the Defense Against the Dark Arts OWL.  I don't know that Harry would have paid much attention to it, since he was more concerned about watching his father and his father's friends.  Of course, there could have been other times when Harry had opportunity to see Snape's handwriting and I don't remember it.

[LikORish-Spider]

The best description of Snape's handwriting was in OOTP, when Harry sees 15-year-old Snape writing during the Defense Against the Dark Arts OWL.  I don't know that Harry would have paid much attention to it, since he was more concerned about watching his father and his father's friends.  Of course, there could have been other times when Harry had opportunity to see Snape's handwriting and I don't remember it.

Yeah, Snape's only been writing instructions on the board in the potions class for 5 years. Harry's bound NOT to have noticed the writing, since up to HPB he was obviously not payng attention.

[kbmum]

But, the writing on the board is big and the writing in the book is small.

Something that's bothered me since reading the book is who wrote the words, "This book is the property of the Half-Blood Prince."  Was it Snape or his mom?  (My mom and I have very similar handwriting.)  I would guess Snape, since it matched the handwriting in the rest of the book, but why would he write that?

[LikORish-Spider]

I think that Snape think's that Dumbledore is dead. If Dumbledore told Snape to kill him, it's because he knows that it is in Snape's nature to do it. Also, I think that Dumbledore did it so that he could be completely free to go undergrond against the Death Eaters. The portrait in the headmaster's office is a way for Dumbledore to eat-his-cake-and-have-it-too. He is "dead" so he is off the Death Eater want list, he is free to come and go as he pleases and he is free to communicate with the new headmaster/mistress who can summon Harry.  Also, Dumbledore is good at legilimens, he can get into Harry's mind without being face-to-face with him. Don't forget that Snape knew he was going to get the chance to kill Dumbledore, if the theory that dumbledore put him up to it is correct. This explains why he did not hesitate to take the unbreakable vow with Narcissa. Plus, it seems that Snape is carrying a torch for Narcissa and killing Dumbledore made him a bunch of points with her. Either way, in Snape's mind it was a win-win decision. He is now also Aces with the Dark Lord and Bellatrix will be off his back. Snape must think he is prettttty smart.

In order for Snape to convince the Dark Lord that he, Dumbledore, is dead, Dumbledore would not have tipped his hand to Snape of the faking of his death. Remember that the Dark Lord is very accomplished in legilimens as well.

[Nienna]

I've just finished listening to the HBP audiobook and a couple of things seemed to stand out which I hadn't really noticed when I read it for myself.
Dumbledore makes no explanation of 'what' the water from the bowl did to him when he drank it ... other than bring him to his knees begging and screaming that is.
Did he drink the souls of those dead people-turned-into-inferi at the lake perhaps, or was he forced to re-live someone being tortured beyond endurance?
He could have explained a tiny bit of what it was to Harry on their journey back to Hogsmead and I think with him now being a portrait in his old rooms, he will be able to tell Harry in greater detail and advise him that way.

The other thing which is bothering me, is the description of Dumbledore at the top of the Astronomy Tower clutching at his chest.
It's my belief that DD had a heart attack, possibly brought on by the cursed water he drank and I'm sure DD knew he was dying - you heard one of the Deatheaters say as much .... I also believe that Snape had told DD of the 'plan' and his part in making the Unbreakable Vow with Narcissa and that DD knew that Snape would have to kill him knowing that Draco would be unable to and begged him to do it instead.

Oh and one last thing .... Harry is off to Godric's Hollow in the next book - another place which Voldie has visited.
Might there be another Horcrux stashed away in the ruins of Harry's parent's home or even at his parent's graves?

Enough of me rambling ...
Those were very interesting observations John - they gave me more  to ponder on along with my own!!

[emmafan]

Hey guys... Long time no talk as it were
I've been caught up in a lot at school and haven't had much chance to long on recently.  However, I guess the site was down for the last two days and I was really starting to worry that I wouldn't be able to get in touch with you guys.  Whew, what a relieft to see everything is ok.

I have a few thoughts on everything...

Firstly, Dumbledore specificaly asks Harry to take him to Snape.  We are led to think (or perhaps we aren't being led at all....lol) that DD wants to be brought to Snape bc he knows that Snape could cure him.  Could it be that DD knows he is weak and wants to be led to Snape so that Snape may kill him?  Although again, he would have wanted his death to be witnessed by many Death Eaters to "prove" that Snape is evil. 

The other thing I keep riding on however is this and this is my big thesis on book 6-
In the first five books, Harry is wrong in practically everything he assumes about the realities of people and situations.  In those cases JK surely used the thoughts of Harry to distract us readers from the truth and then *blam* theres a big surprise twist ending.  Think about it, when (In those first 5 books) was Harry ever right concering major plot elements?  However, now look to book 6- Harry's intuition was outstanding and it seemed to me that he was correct on almost all of his hunches concerning the major plot twists and such. 

What do you think?