The Yak Shack Forum

There's a seller on eBay who recently sold an POAU Harry auto.  On another forum, people are questioning whether the auto is authentic.  (They're questioning many of his autos.)  If anyone here has the Harry card and personally pulled it from a pack, could you please post a scan?  I'm hoping several people will do this, since I've seen this auto with Dan Radcliffe's name signed straight across the card, as well as with his first name on top and last name below it.

Well that sucks. I have three of his autos personally pulled, but not from that set. I have the quad from GOFU, the regular auto from that set and one from the MM set, I think. Is it just the way he signed that they are questioning, or are there other "problems" with the card.

Cindy, there is another one listed on eBay right now as well and the auto is much thinner than the one that sold.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/Harry-Potter-POA-Daniel-Radcliffe-Auto-Autograph-Card-/290479227883?pt=UK_Collectables_TradingCards_RL&hash=item43a1e943eb

Right now, it's only the signature that's being questioned.  There are tell-tale signs with an item is signed by an auto pen -- it's a device used to "sign" large numbers of documents to make it look like the signature is real.  One example would be holiday cards that come from the White House.  The president didn't actually sign all those cards.  It was done by machine and there is a dot that appears at the beginning and/or end of each word from where the pen set down.

A former NSU mod and NSU magazine writer has a blog about counterfeits and other issues in the non-sport industry.  The HP card isn't yet mentioned on his blog, but he has lots of good info here:

http://webjon.com/blog/

If you scroll through his many previous posts, you'll see other counterfeits he's found.  It makes for very interesting reading.  It also makes me very uncomfortable about buying autos from anyone other than trusted sellers.

I know all about the auto-pen (I watch Pawn Stars on TV and they cover this a lot). I do have to admit, the auto doesn't look right compared to others I have seen. Makes me nervous about my Emma and Rupert autos since I bought one on eBay and did a trade for the other at a card show (which was a trade the guy at the show had just made with another customer right before me). I would just really hope there aren't too many of these going around. Shame people actually do this.

My 2-cents.
I have a bunch of scans of this card.
None of them has this tint of black ink. Also the line of the signature is too thick. (A change of markers perhaps?)
If so, it doesn't explain the following:
On all of the other scans I have the letters dc of Radcliffe do not touch, there is a line up from the bottom of the d up to the top of the c
I have posted two other card scans.

1. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/LikORish-Spider/Harry%20Potter%2004%20Prisioner%20of%20Azkaban%20Update/POAU%20autographs/APOAUDanielRadcliffeasHarryPotterCounterfeit-ebay170572147248.jpg)
Letters dc of Radcliffe are touching. Ink is not a pure crisp black color. Is it counterfeit?  Compare to the other two. You decide.

2. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/LikORish-Spider/Harry%20Potter%2004%20Prisioner%20of%20Azkaban%20Update/POAU%20autographs/APOAUDanielRadcliffeasHarryPotter3-ebay290479227883.jpg)

3. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/LikORish-Spider/Harry%20Potter%2004%20Prisioner%20of%20Azkaban%20Update/POAU%20autographs/APOAUDanielRadcliffeasHarryPotter.jpg)

That definitly looks like a fake

I'm confident it is fake.  The signature is way off, obviously, but if you also look at the signature area the image fades into the signature area quite a bit more abruptly in the fake than in the real cards.  This, of course, could be in the scan, but I doubt it since it is a pretty decent scan.

The seller has been contacted about this card, but didn't respond (despite pulling down the other cards).  I'll add this to webjon tonight.

Jon (webjon)

The R for Radcliffe also looks wrong. IN the possible fake, it has a straight line to it, while in the others, it curves around towards the top. Now, I don't have the auto from this set, but this tempted me to look at the ones I do have. ALL three of them are like the second two scans you posted with the curved R and the dc NOT touching, with that line leading up to the c. Now, Dan has one of the worst autos I have seen. Of my three, none are exactly alike, but they all have similarities to them. The one we are assuming may be a fake looks way too neat to be real to me.

I feel bad for the person who bought it. If the seller took down the other auctions, they know something is not right. Wish we could contact the buyer about it.

Where did he even get the card from to put the fake on?

Most likely, in this case, the entire card has been printed and is a fake.  I believe that was the case with the Johnny Depp Charlie and the Chocolate Factory autograph that Artbox confirmed was a counterfeit.  (Details on this are on webjon too).

Jon

The card in question (forgetting the signature) is definitely paler and printing quality is poorer.
Certainly appears to be a mediocre fake.

There are lots of autograph cards that were pulled form packs that did not have signatures on them.
They stick together because of the coating, so a signer might well miss them.
I myself pulled a Warwick Davis card unsigned.
The card may be 100% authentic. Without actually having it in hand it's hard to confirm. Scanners can play tricks on the image.
It's the signature that could be a FORGORY.
I'm just glad I didn't buy it.

Like I said, I feel bad for whoever did buy it.

I have looked at 17 Daniel Radcliffe autogrpahs from various sets that are now on ebay.
They all have the letters d~c with a line connecting them, not touching (dc).

I was thinking of maybe getting one of these autos eventually but il be very hasty in picking which one now

Earlier this year I won a Daniel POAU auto.  It never arrived.   >:()

When card 1 from LikORish-Spider's post was on eBay I compared it to the Yak's price guide photo and decided to pass on it... just didn't look right to me.

Did you get your money back from the seller?

I contacted the seller several times and he never answered so I went through eBay.  The seller had been on eBay for quite awhile and had excellent feedback and shortly after I won the auction negative feedback started pouring in.  It seems something happened to the seller, he just fell off the planet.  eBay couldn't get a response from him so they refund my money. 

I really wish I had gotten the card.  :'(

Was the seller geononsports?  If so, he died last summer.

Sorry to hear that, I bought a lot of good cards from him, and never had any problems.

That is sad.  He wasn't the seller that I bought the auto from.

Well, at least you got your money back. That does suck though.

Yes, it would have been really bad to loose the money on that.  I wish I had known about the Harry Potter cards when they first coming out.  The price for the Daniel POAU is so high, and there is the question if cards on eBay are real or counterfeit, I wonder if I will ever get one.

If you look at the price guide, the prices for the Harry auto were significantly higher in 2004 and 2005 than they are now.  Plus, the auto insert rate for that set was two per case and collation was bad -- lots of dud boxes.  Many, many people lost a lot of money buying those cases.

Wow, all the auctions I see zoom up to the $900+ range.  I was so excited the card I won didn't zoom into the atmosphere.   Hopefully I'll get the Dan POAU card sometime, the artwork on this one is my favorite.  :)

Hey, I'm thinking I'm the one who purchased the card in question.  Stuck at work now, but will look closer when I get home later.  An earlier post mentioned that Artbox confirmed it was a fake.  Is that the direction I should go in, or should I send it off to a grading service.  Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Tony

I think Artbox may have confirmed a different auto being fake, but it would not hurt to send them a scan. You might even want to call and talk to someone there first, as it sometimes takes them a long time to get back to you in an email. If you can somehow find out for sure if it is or not, you can also file a complaint with eBay that the item is fraudulent in hopes to get some, if not all, of your money back. I think others may have some more experience on this than me, so definitely wait for some more responses, but I really think the auto doesn't look right.

I'm glad I was looking at this site and found this information. I contacted the seller a little bit ago, and also emailed a copy to Artbox to see what they think.  The good thing is that although refunds weren't offered by the seller, it does qualify for Ebay buyer protection.  I won't get home until tomorrow, but can't wait to check out the card again, especially since it didn't feel right (thickness-wise). Will let you know how it goes. Thanks 

Compare the thickness of the card to other Artbox autos. If it is different, then this has to be a reproduction. The seller might not offer refunds, but I think eBay would refund you if you explain to them that the thickness of the card is not the same as any of Artbox's products and the auto does not match the actualy autograph of the signer.

Are you talking about the Johnny Depp auto that Artbox confirmed was fake, or the Daniel Radcliffe auto that's the subject of this thread?

IMHO, don't bother sending it to a grading service.  Those services do not have good track records authenticating autos and there are many examples of slabbed cards that were fakes.  Plus, you have only 45 days from the date you make payment for an eBay auction to file a claim against the seller.

Hi. I'm talking about the Daniel Radcliffe card that got this thing thread started.  The reason I was even considering sending it off to be graded was that when I got the card I thought it felt a little off.  I just hadn't seen anything up to this point about fake cards and obviously didn't really consider looking at the auto that close (won't happen again). Plus the seller had a 99+ positive rating with a high number of auctions. I will certainly learn from this, and will let you know if I hear back from Artbox.

If you don't hear back from the seller in a coupe days, I would file the complaint with eBay. Does anyone else agree?

I think once I look at the card closer (with the seemingly large amount of evidence), I'll probably only wait  2 or 3 days to allow him/her time to respond.  Off this subject for a second, what are your opinions on getting cards graded?  I'm a collector, not a seller, and have never had cards graded.  I only have about 6 HP auto cards (although I did collect Baseball cards growing up), so I know the signifigance in price for graded cards.  Still don't know about sending my cards off though.

I have a TON of autos and none are graded. I just think the card is worth what it is worth to me and there is no need to get them graded. That is just my opinion though.

Please keep us posted on the Radcliffe auto though.

The seller has a lot of positive feedback, but most of it is from selling coupons.  He has some negatives, one from a buyer claiming the coupons were fake.  You can see a seller's negative and neutral feedback by entering the eBay user ID on the Toolhaus site:  www.toolhaus.org

Please post an update if you hear from the seller.  Webjon has a blog that follows counterfeit cards, and I know he'll be interested in how this turns out.

As for grading, I think most non-sport collectors don't care whether cards are graded and won't pay to have their cards graded.  Grading has a big affect on price for sport cards, though.  Beckett has attempted a big push to convince non-sport collectors to grade their cards, but I don't think that's been too successful.  I've purchased only two graded HP cards, and as soon as I received them, I promptly removed them from their plastic prisons.

I can certainly understand why you might be interested in having your autos graded, considering you might have a counterfeit card.  Before you send your cards in, you should do a Google search about the fakes that grading companies have stated were authentic.

Actually, when on eBay in the sellers feedback profile now, you can actually click on the number of negative or neutral feedback they received and it will show you those feedbacks only. I think this is new because I just discovered it a couple days ago.


plastic prisons.  :rofl: You crack me up.

Glad you discovered this thread quickly!  I recently did post about  this card on webjon, as well as other cards this seller pulled.

Grading services don't typically authenticate, at least not non-sport stuff, so they are essentially worthless for that.

Artbox may be helpful, but it is highly likely that they will want you to send the card to them before they confirm it is a counterfeit, given the current situation I would recommend you go through Paypal immediately to get a refund.  If you do hear back from Artbox they can contact eBay, confirm the card is fake and request that you send them the card for their research, but given the time line I'd just worry about getting your money back.

Good luck!

Jon

thanks not only for the advice but for your efforts in making this an enjoyable hobby (plus hopefully saving me $375).  I've purchased 7 or 8 cards, and had another instance were I paid for the card and didn't receive it.  (a seller in Australia who got quite a few people)  Thankfully in that case I was able to get my money back.  So having someone look out for us is greatly appreciated. Tony

Just heard back from this seller already (just a few hours), who said he would refund my money for this card. Good news!

that's good news!  ;D

now i'm somewhat worried about the auto I recently bought on ebay. the dangers of fake autos on ebay hadn't occured to me then.

This is great news! Of course, it proves the seller knows it was a fake. Now you just have to wait to make sure the refund comes through.

Hopefully, there are a lot of these out there on eBay. Sucks if there is. Ruins it for the hobby.

not only hoping that it's minimal but also hoping that it's a new development, and the cards that I did buy 2-4 years ago are legit. but it does certainly make you wonder.

Funny you say that. I was just in my room inspecting my Rupert and Emma auto. All my Daniel's were personally pulled or sent from redemptions from Artbox, but I did a trade for my Emma and bought my Rupert on eBay. I think they are fine. Phew.

That's great news!

Did they admit the card is a fake?  Are they asking you to send the card back?  If so we're obviously going to have to keep our eyes out for it again in the future. . .

Jon

Just said that refund is acceptable for this item.  and did ask to return the card.  I'll make sure someone has to sign off on receiving the card.

Please take a high resolution (300 dpi) scan of the card front and back before returning it.

I'd like to have them for comparisons and future posts on webjon.com.

Thanks,

Jon

I know that when you go through eBay for a counterfeit item, eBay tells you to NOT send the item back, as they don't want the seller re-selling it to someone who doesn't realize it is fake. Although, you did not go through eBay and want your money back, so you might have to return it.

Is this true?  :o
The reason I ask is that I bought from this seller in July of this year!
Admittedly I haven't bought from them since then but a check on their Ebay ID shows they left f/b for buyers in Sept & rec'd f/b from buyers in Oct of this year and all were card sales.
I've long since thrown out the packaging but as far as I can recall, it had his return address info on the outside as normal.
Is it possible another family member is continuing to use his a/c?

As for the fake Dan autos - definitely sends a shudder down my spine reading about this!  >:()
He has to have one of the consistently messy autos I've ever come across which makes his cards an easy target for forgery. The big giveaway on the one John posted (Card 1) was the pen used to sign the name - even at his messiest Dan uses a fine tipped pen to sign his cards whereas Card 1 looked like it'd been signed with a yardbrush!  ::)
'Constant Vigilance!' and either buying/pulling the cards from your own boxes or buying from sellers whose integrity you trust.

Glad to hear a refund has been offered although I wouldn't be too happy returning something I have good reason to believe is fake so that this seller can offer it for sale again.
Still, hope you get the money ASAP!  ;)

Yes, it's true.  He died August 31.  Here's his obit:  http://www.northjersey.com/obituaries/103024929_George_W__Messenger__67.html

It does look like someone in his family sold a handful of items in September and October.  One of the positive feedback comments on Sept. 24 mentions his passing.

Hey All! ;) The thing about the poss fake auto card is that if you sign 150 cards in 15-20 minutes or so,One or two are always going to look strange!That pic shown above does look fake so it comes down to the actual card quality itself! I would suggest that if you are not sure,then to send it to Kay at Artbox and for them to examine it? :-X

 :'( Thanks Cindy ... I'm sorry to have this confirmed as he was one of the good sellers on Ebay ...  :'(

Oh my, how long d'you think it would take Kay et al to examine & return your card if you sent it over for them to check it? ::) :P :rofl:
We're still waiting to hear more re. the Mad-eye autos which never seems to materialise ... perhaps we ought to write to his son to get him to give his Dad a boot up the rear to get these bl00dy cards signed!  :P  >:D

Another comment like that Julie and i may kick you up the bottom :P

Was it geononsports who died?I`m confused(as usual).Who was the seller who sold the Radcliffe auto which might be a fake?I wouldn`t think it was geononsports as he was a decent card dealer! ???

Geononsports died and he did not sell any fake autos.  The seller with the recent fake autos is savecoupon.

Oi! I'm only calling it like it is John!  ;) [Heh, you'd have to have long l-o-o-o-o-ng legs to make that kick too!  :P]
I've read too many times of over-long waits on cards being returned & given how expensive/rare some of these have been, is it any wonder collectors are somewhat wary of returning them for verification?
Those of us in the UK will always be at a disadvantage on issues like this purely because of distance.  :(

Thanks for the Ebay ID of this seller Cindy ... I'll go and have a look at what they've been up to!  |:#
(@ John - geononsports was certainly one of the good guys in card trading - we need a few more like him on Ebay.  ;))

I will definitly not be buying from him  >:()

Thanks For the ebay name Cindy!I`m interested in whats up for grabs too on :ebay:

Now I'm starting to get worried about fakes.  Can anybody check out my Emma POAU thread and tell me what you think?


What is Kay's e-mail address?

Sorry so late in getting back, but I've been away for Christmas. (yes, no internet for almost a week). Anyway I received a refund on the card on Dec 23rd, so I thought I would let everyone know that the seller did come thru with that. I'm grateful for the advice from members, who obviously have more experience with this than I do. Thanks, Tony

Tony, this is wonderful news! Thank you for letting everyone know.


I think your auto looks fine. Nothing strange about it to me. That's good.

Kay's email would be the general Artbox customer service email. It should be on their website, if their site is not under maintenance. I haven't been on there for a while because it rarely gets updated.

Excellent outcome Tony - thanks for passing on the good news!  ;D

Re: the Hermione auto - I'm with Sara on this one ... it looks absolutely fine to me too and I must say, it's a really nice example of one of her autograph ... you've got a 'keeper' there!  ;)
*phew* thank goodness there's been a happy outcome this time around, but we'd ALL do well to keep an eye on this particular seller and also to remain vigilant in calling each other's attention to cards we think might not be as they should be.  ;)

Thanks for looking at my Hermione auto and reassuring me!   :)

Tony, glad to hear you got a refund.