The Yak Shack Forum

60 years today. I think we are very lucky to be born when we were and we should be greatful :)

(No disrespect ment to our dear German Yaks, I don't blame Germany only Hitler >:()

Amen!  It is a point in time we should all remember and honor all those who served to liberate the world from tyranny.   :o=

Both Grandfathers and a Great Aunt of mine served during that time.  Definately the greatest generation.

Aye indeed. I was at a celebration of VE day today with an Aircraft show of planes used on both sides throught the war, and I was standing next to and chatting to some German folk :)

Mark & Roz:

Thanks for going to the Duxford Airshow today and for sending all those great photos.  I replied back to Mark and gave comments on the 38 photos identifying the aircraft he sent me to view.  Were the German folks you spoke with visiting the show or did they serve during the war?  The weather looked at times great and at other times miserable.  Did it rain much at the show?

I think people should also remember all the people that where in concentration camps.
The kids great grandmother was in one she lost her husband and children only her
daughter( my ex mother in law ) and Herself survived

Absoloutely McG! Sitting here I can't even contemplate wanting to live on once I had lost such people. Your Grandmother must have had tremendous courage.

Mark and I went to the biggest celebration of VE day in the UK (apparently) - an Airshow at the Imperial War Museum at Duxford:

with Ed (savage727's) help we have been able to put some "names to faces" ;)

The weather was really rough - heavy winds and occasional bouts of rain making the sky dark and look like this :

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/weatherconditions.jpg)

Here is the helicopter we renamed the Gandalf for the day ;) because they were saying it was a Merlin. I think that must be some variety of Super Puma Helicopter?? I'm a bit confused there ;)

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/theamazinglymanoevrableMerlin.jpg)

There's always someone standing in front of you with a baseball cap on... or a big conk... such as this oversized fellow ;)

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/someonealwayshastosticktheirnosein.jpg)

At least Concord had a good view :P

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/Concordhadagoodview.jpg)

Inside the Concord prototype! Looks really complicated to me  :-\

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/lookscomplicatedtome.jpg)

Battle of Britain Memorial Flight.  Lancaster Heavy Bomber flanked on the right by a Hurricane Fighter and on the left by a Spitfire Fighter.  The Hurricane & Spitfire were the 2 British Aircraft that won the Battle of Britain in 1940.  Great fighters. It seems that there are only two Lancaster Bombers stil flying so they have to keep them nice :P and not fly them in adverse weather (ahem) but it was the 60th Anniversary ;) so they had to brave it!l

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/Lancaster.jpg)

A two seat trainer Spitfire Fighter.


(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/29.jpg)

From left to right - L4 Piper Cub Artillery Spotter Aircraft, German Storch Utility plane, Clipped Wing Version of a British Spitfire Fighter.


(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/28.jpg)

Grumman Wildcat fighter in British Markings.  This was the main fighter the US Navy and Marine Corps pilots flew in the Pacific for the first half of the war.  British pilots flew this plane from carriers in the Atlantic and Mediterranean.

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/27.jpg)

PBY Catalina Amphibious aircraft used by us both all over the world for Scouting, Ant- Submarine Warfare, Search & Rescue, and Night Attack.  Great aircraft.

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/26.jpg)

Photo of Ferocious Frankie a P-51D Mustang Fighter.  These types of fighter aircraft were based at Duxford when it was given to the Americans as a base.

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/25.jpg)

Photo of a P-47D Thunderbolt Fighter.  Along with the P-51 Mustang these were the two major fighter aircraft that Americans flew out of England to escort the bombers.

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/24.jpg)

Photos of a P-51 Mustang in filight, a P-47 Thunderbolt in fight, another of a P-51 Mustang in flight.


(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/21.jpg)

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/20.jpg)

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/19.jpg)

Formation flight of P-51 Mustang and P-47 Thunderbolt Fighters.   The black & white stripes on the aircraft indicate they were used for the D-Day landings and were so marked to show that they were friendly aircraft to ship and ground gunners during the invasion.  British aircraft were also marked this way as well.


(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/18.jpg)


(Foreground) Trainer Spitfire Fighter with a F4U-1D Corsair Fighter landing behind it(background).  This fighter was used by our Navy and Marine Corps pilots in the Pacific for the last half of the war and also used by British Navy Pilots in the Pacific.  Ed's  Mother worked at the Chance Vought Aircraft Company in Stratford, Connecticut durin the war riviting the wings together of these great fighters.  Who knows she may have worked on this one?


(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/17.jpg)

 P-47 Thunderbolt and F4U Corsair flying past 3 Spitfires on the flight line!



(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/15.jpg)

Russian Yak fighter taxing out.  This is actually the 2 seat trainer version of the fighter.

(NB... if the forum ever buys a plane ;) it must be a Yak one :D)


(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/14.jpg)


(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/13.jpg)

Fercious Frankie P-51 Fighter taxing out past several British Army helicopters - The Lynx and Super Puma.

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/12.jpg)

Photo of Big Beautiful Doll P-51 Mustang Fighter taxing out.  The American fighter and bomber pilots named their planes and had them painted up usually of girlfriends or wives.

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/11.jpg)


(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/9.jpg)

F-80 Shooting Star in flight.  It was one of the first American Jet Fighters and it came out just as the war ended.  It was used in the Korean War mainly as a ground attack plane.

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/8.jpg)


British Spitfire Fighter warming up for take off.

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/6.jpg)

4 British Spitfires flying in formation

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/5spit.jpg)




American B-17G Heavy Bomber.  Earlier versions of the B-17 that flew from England did not have the chin turret of machine guns.  This was introduced because the German fighters would make head on passes at the bombers which did not have many fordward firing guns in the nose.

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/4.jpg)

British Hurricane Fighter taxing out to the flight line.

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/3.jpg)

British Navy Sea Fury

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/2.jpg)

P-47 Thunderbolt fighter

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Savage727/1.jpg)

Hi Roz:

Great job by you and Mark with the photos!   :)  You must tell everyone about your Spitfire simulator dogfight against a German Messerschmidt!!  Did any current American jets stationed in England make any flybys?

Sorry, but whats VE Day?

Victory in Europe. The second world war, 60 years ago yesterday :)

Oh, ok. Not really into history so I dont know much :P

Well this is rather an important bit of history, and we are lucky enough to still have many folks alive who we can ask about it - although time is running out as Dawn says - 60 years yesterday the first part ended (VJ comes later in the summer) - so really anyone with any interesting info about the war is at least 80 years old now - and to be on the safe side 85!

Now that's getting above the average life span of a human being!

Thats great to know people are still alive to tell others about. Is it a big part of British History?

Hello EmmasOneandOnly:

I see by your profile that you are 14 so you probably are a freshman in high school.  I would be interested to hear if your teachers taught anything to you and your classmates on World War II.   To answer your question yes it most certainly was a big part if not the biggest in British history as well as pretty much the rest of the world.   

England was in the war from day one which began in 1939.  We did not start fighting until the Japanese attacked us at Pearl Harbor in 1941.  The United States and its Allies were heavily involved fighting in Europe, the Mediterranean, and all over the Pacific during World War II.  VE Day stands for Victory in Europe and VJ Day stands for Victory over Japan.  This year marks the 60th Anniversary of the end of World War II which is not all that long ago. 

It is a big piece of British history, but you have to remember that Biritish history, and indeed European history as a whole is very long indeed.

WW2 is so highlighted because it's so recent, and because (we hope) it will be the last battle faught in the way that it was, and because people still live that remember it.

It is not called a "world war" through some delusion of gradeur on our part, it affected literally the whole world.

and that there are many survivors of this war still around.
if you want to know more about it i would suggest you read a book called
The Diary of Anne Frank

That's a good idea. I can't remember how old she was when she first started writing it - perhaps 8?? It's too long since I read it to be sure, but it puts the war totally into perspective - she was a young Jewish girl living in a city in the Netherlands (Holland) called Amserdam.

A good read!

i thought so it showed the war for her eyes  and the people around her.

did you get my pm roz ??

Great pics, Roz!  My husband will love to see them.  He's a pilot-business jets and helocopters.

Thank you for the pic Roz and Mark
My hubby and father in law father  loved looking at them

Those pictures are really great  ;D

My grandfather was in the Navy during World War 2, and my mom mentioned some of the horrible stuff that he had witnessed while he was over there. I agree it is a time that should never be forgotten.

Some other  really great stories to read on the holocaust and it's survivor's are:

"All But My Life"  by Gerda Weissman Klein
"The Pianist" by Wladyslaw Szpilman (the movie with Adrian Brody really got to me also)
"Night" by Elie Wiesel

These books are just a few that really got to me and showed me the true meaning of survival.

Since I've been studying Japanese (college level), I've learned a lot about WW II ... more specifically, the Japanese side of the war. At the end of the war, the Americans bombed both Hiroshima and Nagasaki with A-bombs and there were many other air raids. In America, most Japanese-Americans were also sent to internment camps because of fear that they were spies or could be traitors. This is very general (only a taste of what happened in the Japanese side) so there's a lot that I'm omitting here ... some good reads in this area (all Japanese Literature) include:

A-Bomb Literature --
"The Crazy Iris" by Hara Tamiki
"The Empty Can" by Hayashi Kyoko
Japanese Internment Literature --
"The Emperor was Divine" by Julie Otsuka

There are probably others, but these are ones I read in my Japanese Literature class this semester.

Although this is not directly about VE day, it part of what was happening with WW II. Of course, this is a time that shouldn't be forgotten. Not to be cliche, but it's good to learn from the past so that it won't be repeated in the future ... although places like Rwanda have, to a lesser extent, faced hardship through mass murders.

Hey Mikey

This is what I find particularly interesting - you see we rarely get to hear their side of the story because of the language difficulties, the anime series Full Metal Alchemist film seems to be in the time frame of WW2 which I think will make it particularly interesting - how are the Japanese seeing things now? Although we know that their thoughts will be tempered by their American audience this really is written for their home audience.

But" proper" books would be much better - thanks for the list :D

The Japanese still have not come to terms with their wartime past as was shown so recently with the riots in China over Japan's introduction of new school texbooks which downplay their brutality during the war towards China and everyone else.  The Chinese attacked Japanese Consulates and businesses throughout China for almost a month now.  They like to cry about the Atomic Bombs but they have reaped the whirlwind which they themselves had sown.  As horrible as those weapons were they did indeed save millions of lives on both the American and Japanese side as it ended the war before the invasion of Japan had occurred. 

I was about to post something similar, Savage.  Thanks for putting it so concisely.

You are welcome Grecopa.  World War II and especially The Pacific War has been an interest of mine for well over 30 years.  My Dad made 5 major assult landings against the Japanese in World War II as a U.S. Marine and was lucky enough to have survived that much combat only being wounded one time during the Battle on Tinian in 1944.  He is the reason why I made a career of and joined the Marine Corps.  I cannot tell you how many stories I have heard over the years not only from my Dad but from hundreds of other Veteran's from The Pacific War about the brutality of the Japanese forces.  Every Veteran I have talked to thanked God that the atomic bombs were used as they sincerely feel their own lives were spared as the proposed invasion of Japan would have claimed so many lives. 

You must also remember that Japan had a huge army in China, Manchuria, and Korea that we would have had to confront in addition to the forces in Japan proper.  The Yalta Agreement signed in 1945 made for the provision of Russia entering the war against Japan as soon as Nazi Germany was defeated.  This the Russians did do and they attacked Japanese forces in Manchuria very hard but it was at the time that the atomic bombs were used thus ending the war before the Russians could take over much territory.  The atomic bombs prevented the Russians from taking over areas in Asia like they did in Europe and keeping them under their rule like they did all through the Cold War until the fall of the Soviet Union and Communism.  That was a secondary benefit from the atomic bombs.   

Semper Fi, Savage!  My grandfather was in D-day+2, Battle of the Bulge, and a few others.  I can't recall his Army unit, but there is a lot written about it.  All of the men on my side of the family were in the military at one point in thier lives.  The WWII vets in my family were all in Europe, none in the pacific.  My husband Phil was a Navy helocopter pilot until a few years ago.  We lived on the base at Guantanamo Bay for a couple of years.  Dad was in Vietnam- 2 bronze stars.  You know quite a bit about the war.  I should really read up on it much more than I have.  I don't recall learning much about it in school (long ago) it's a shame, really.  This stuff should never be forgotten.

Nice to see that people know the Marine Corps motto!   :)    Military tradition runs in my family as well.  Your Grandfather sure had his fill of combat from what you have written.  God bless him, is he still alive?  I honor your Dad's service to our country especially as he earned 2 Bronze Stars.  In the Vietnam War those medals were given for Bravery in Combat.  You should be very proud of your Dad!
Your husband and I share a common bond in that we are both Naval Aviators which as we both know are the best pilots in the world!   :)  I fly F/A-18 Hornets but have been on sick leave due to illness and will most likely be medically retired at the end of the year if I do not recover.  What kind of helos did your husband fly in the Navy?

I know a lot about the war because it has interested me since childhood.  I have visited and walked almost all of the Pacific area battlesites and have written an oral history about The Battle for Iwo Jima which was published in 1999.  As you know Iwo Jima was the battle that cost the Marines the most casualties during the war and was the sight of the most famous photograph of the war, the flag raising on Mt. Suribachi.  I had the honor of standing right on top of Suribachi in the exact spot the flag was raised back in 1995 which was the 50th Anniversary of the battle.  There were 1000 Veteran's that returned to Iwo for that ceremony and it was from talking to those Vet's that the idea for a book developed.  It was sad to hear many of them say that their families were not interested or that the experience was so horrible that it was only now they they started to talk about what they saw and experienced.  Most of these men were in 1995 in their late 70's and early 80's so many of them are now gone forever.   I agree with you that this should never be forgotten. 

Hey, that's cool.  What's the title of your book?  My husband Phil flew H-60 seahawks and then went to Hueys (uh-1?) and C-12's in Gitmo (took gitmo to get out of a dissasociated sea tour ;)).  He's now out of the military and flys for Netjets.  My grandfather on my dad's side was a medic, but he died when I was in high school.  I don't know much about his service, but he did bring home a nazi dagger that I can remember seeing.  My mom found out a lot about her Fathers service.  Mom is into geneology and has it all written down thank goodness.  Dad was in 11th air assault when it first started out.  But re-uped into a different unit at the request of my Mom.  Thank goodness, because I hear that air assault was in some really ugly stuff.  There's a movie about them.  I think it's called "We were soldiers".  Let me know about your book.  Phil and I would be interested in it.  ;D

Sorry for interrupting the current discussion, but ...


Well, I agree to some extent with what savage727 said. Except, the Japanese generally keep their emotions fairly well hidden, from my experiences. It's really hard to judge either way. In regards to the textbooks, my sensei for a class in Spring 2001 told us about them downplaying a lot of the "bad" things that the Japanese did.

When I visited Hiroshima and the peace museum, I could only think of how horrible it was for me to be an American (from the country that did this to any human being). Perhaps, it was necessary that I don't really know ... I'm not sure if I can really comprehend either way. I just don't want it to happen again :o=

Thanks, and call me Mike

first,
Not in Highschool yet, 8th grade with 9th grade Math, New Testament and Florida History. So I dont really know that much about other history then my very own state. I dont think I'll be studying this topic anytime soon. Roz told me that Florida played a big part too. And in Florida History, I'm studying 1845-1876 so I dont think this will jump in for sometime. 

Second,
I'm homeschooled so your talking to my class right here ;D . Its a Christian School that offers a Home-based program and a Full-time Program, thats why I take New Testament. I think you can guess which one I'm in *Home-based, thats why I'm on the forum all the time ;) *.   

Edit:
Some FAQ ;)

Does your parents teach you?

No, the books give me very clear instruction to do the work so no parents involved.

Is it more work when home schooled

Not when you do it through something like I am. The school takes care of my book *a.k.a. PACEs*, grade, and any other school stuff I left out. All my mom has to do is help keep up with my grade because I dont always go to school.

I don't have much to add but:
another book I would recommend is 'Sadako and the 1000 Paper Cranes' by Eleanor Cooper. It's a children's book but is a very moving one, even for older kids/adults.

My gradfather served in WW II. Back in 1996 (I think) my family, my mom's brother's family and my grandparents spent several weeks in France. During our time we went to visit the D-Day beaches and the related museum. Being there with my grandfather was a thing I will never forget. We never talked specifics as far as I remember but didn't need to. When people found out that he was a vet they thanked him from the bottom of their hearts and he even got to sign a book at the museum. For the people in this area, they have not forgotten the war and never will. It amazes me that there are still some people who deny/refuse to belive in the Holocaust.

VE day is quite important. Many of us are too young--we have grown up in a world without a world war. I don't think our generation fully appreciates its significance or effect.

Hey, Zero.  I don't want to get political, but it bothers me that you were ashamed of being an American.  You should always be proud of this country.  We have done amazing things and and helped countless numbers of people.  No country is perfect, but the freedom we enjoy here and try to give to others is worthy of respect.  For all nationallities, British, Australian, German, Japanese, be proud of your country.  Learn from the mistakes and embrace the accomplishments. ;D  Now, back to watching the mailbox for my SS box, which is what we are all thinking of now anyway! ;D

I agree that is also a very good book! At the Peach Museum in Hiroshima, they had some of the cranes she made displayed!


I'm not ashamed to be an American :-\ Perhaps, what I said came across the wrong way. I meant to say in that instance, in that moment, I couldn't help but feel the way I did. I just felt heavy and horrible. It's very hard to describe when written. In fact, I love being in America, and I couldn't imagine permenantly leaving. I don't know ... it's hard to describe.

In any regard, back to waiting for SS! It's time to think of the present ... I just had to further explain that I wasn't ashamed to be (or an anti-) American ;) I'm far from that!

Hey, Zero...... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  Now I'm off to bed to dream of SS boxes! ^-^

Hi Kelly:

Tell Phil that I have spent a lot of time flying around as a passenger in Seahawks/Blackhawks, Hueys, and C-12's!   :)  I did however have a near death experience back in 1984 flying as a passenger in a Marine Corps CH-53D Sea Stallion helicopter.  The aircraft crashed due to the tail rotor coming off and I spent 3 months in Bethesda Naval Hospital recovering from injuries to both arms and my right eye.  I used up one of my nine lives in that one believe you me!   :o=  I have since used up a few more in the succeeding years!   ;)

The name of the book is "Never In Doubt"; Remembering Iwo Jima and is published by The Naval Institute Press.  It is available from Amazon.Com and larger bookstores by special order now.  It was published in 1999.  The movie you mention about your Dad's outfit in Vietnam was outstanding.  Mel Gibson played the Commanding Officer in "We Were Soldiers" wonderfully.  The movie is one of the best on the Vietnam War showing not only its affect on the soldier's but also the loved ones back home. 

Hello Mike:

Well good luck to you with your home schooling!  If you ever have any history questions feel free to email me and I will do my best to answer them!   :)  World War II had such a huge impact on the fabric of the United States and the world and in many aspects gave us the country and life we all now enjoy.  It was through the efforts of those men and women who not only fought in the war but who after the war went on to Colleges and Universities all over America and made this country what it is today.  We owe them all so much Mike that the least we can do for them is to not forget their sacrifices made on behalf of us all. 

The other Mike (Zero):

I too have been to Hiroshima and The Peace Museum and was in uniform at the time.  I did not experience the same feelings as you expressed.  I was however sorry that it took such a momentous event to finally convince the rulers of Japan to end the war after exposing their own people to such destruction.  I have also visited Nagasaki where the second atomic bomb was delivered as my Dad and the Second Marine Division were posted to that area immediately after hostilities ended.  It was from him and many other Marine Veterans I have spoken to who were stationed in Japan immediately after the war that I found out just how much weaponary the Japanese had stockpiled for the upcoming invasion that we did not know about.  I am talking about huge underground areas filled with every instrument of war in huge quantities from aircraft, armor, and individual weapons that would have been used against us. It was the same situation on all of the Japanese Home Islands.   It would have been the largest bloodbath of the entire war.

Thanks for sharing your experiences. It's always good to here about it from different perspectives! This is the side that I never really get to hear about.

Thanks

Dont worry, with my dad in the army I've learned not to forget something done for my country and to think about it I dont think he'd let me ;) . History isnt my strong spot but my mom says I must like it because I've never gotten below 95 on my Florida History test in school :o and everything I study I remember. As I go into High School I'm srue you'll come in handy ;)

Mike(Zero):

You are welcome.  There are two sides to every story.  I have seen numerous photos in our National Archives of the areas I was talking about.  They were taken by Intelligence Officers.  Too many to count Kamakize Human Torpedos, Mini Submarines, Small Fast Attack Boats, Aircraft of all types, to name just some of the photos I have seen. 

Mike(EmmasOneAndOnly):

That's right, I forgot your Dad was in the Army!  Outstanding grades on your Florida History Tests!   :)   Keep up the great work.  Well thanks for the vote of confidence and I will do my best to help you!   :)

So Mike, do you live in a very remote area or something? It sounds pretty well organised :D