The Yak Shack Forum

Hello,
      I have emailed Roz about the possiblity of having Mark, put an email on the shack that members could sign that would then be sent to ARTBOX, voicing our concerns with the last release and requesting more information on the upcoming release.  Activism is a very strong tool in having a company listen to its costumers. Especially if signatures came from customers worldwide. Roz ask me to write a rough draft. Which I will do here. Please feel feel to add you thoughs and concerns. Above all we need to be fair.  ;)
Dear Sirs:
      We would like to bring to your attention the concerns we have with your planned upcoming release of the Harry Potter and the Sorcerers (Philosophers) Stone Cards.
       First let us add as collectors we are impressed with the quality of your products and have spent many hours admiring and seeking them.  It is in this context that we were so very disappointed with your last release of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban Update cards. We feel they were overproduced and the boxes were well undervalued. Many of us spent precious dollars preordering boxes and cases only to be disappointed with the content.  We assumed that the release would at least be as good as the original set, for content and ratio of cards for box.
        We feel you have hurt your business as many of us this time are going to take a wait and see attitude. There will not be the number of preorders this time unless there is some disclosure on your part of the number of boxes to be produced, the ratio of the insertion and the expected contents.  We encourage you, as other card company do, to let the customers know what to expect.
                                 With sincere regards,
                                  Members of  THE YAKSHACK

I'm in.  Just let me know what i need to do!!

Perhaps it would be a good idea for each person who signs, to also list the number of boxes purchased?  Or how much money each person could estimate they spent on the Update alone?  I have a feeling if Artbox sees just how dedicated these forum members are, it might affect some of their decisions.  In addition, I believe that this forum  represents a fairly significant percentage of the Artbox Harry Potter card consumers.  If the company hears our interests and concerns, perhaps we could have some weight on decisions.

  I am sure that Artbox has a customer relations department of some sort, maybe it would be a good idea to invite Artbox to view certain portions of this site (such as posts about thoughts and desires for upcoming sets and inclusions)

I'm definetly in ...
  I think letting Artbox know our concerns is very important ..
 Sometimes people get too "close" to their work and don't see what others see , maybe just letting them know our thoughts will not only help them but us as well ...
  Definetly worth the shot .....
 Maybe letting Artbox know we have concerns and that we would like additional info BEFORE a product is released will get them going ...
  I surely hope so ...
  As I stated in another thread last week I went to look at Rittenhouse Archives website for info on their upcoming Star Trek TNG Quotables product which releases on March 30 (I believe) ....
  well guess what ??    
  that website had a complete checklist on the set .... pictures of autos & costume cards .... checklist of autos & costume cards and insert cards .....  tremendous job by Rittenhouse .... all the info you want  well before the product comes out -- well done  !!
  Now this is what we all would hope Artbox would do and maybe this letter or petition will help ....
  and yes I think that when adding your email address that the inclusion of how many boxes/cases each person bought is a great idea ....
  There's most certainly power in numbers and boy I for one would love to let Artbox know that alot of people are very interested and excited about the upcoming set but at the same time let them know our disappointments and comments (good and bad) on the Update set .....
   ron

erevine --

 I think you've got a good start to the "letter" we'll send to Artbox ....
  I know I'm certainly not a "writer" but  I think if we can all have some input on what this letter says that would be great ....
  I think we really need to get through to  Artbox what our complaints about the Update set are , what changes we'd like to see , offer some opinions  and let them know that they're lack of information on upcoming products is very weak at best ....
  I think we really need to hammer home to them that if things don't change from what they did to the Update set that many,many of us will not order their upcoming product(s)  and I for one would hope they would like to even dealers ........
  I'm excited to see us all work together to compile this letter and to see if we get any type of response from it ....

 ron

From reading everyone’s postings, I’ve come up with what I think we’d all like to see from Artbox.

1)   Total print run of Sorcerers Stone
2)   MSRP of Hobby Box
3)   Pictures of Costumes
4)   Pictures of Props
5)   Pictures of Autographs
6)   Pictures of Cinema FilmCardz
7)   A checklist of entire special insert cards (with card run #)

Did I forget anything?

Maybe the summary could be added to end of the letter as a sort of an outline of our wants.

I also like the ideas of members indicating how many boxes/cases each person bought along with which country they’re from.  It would give Artbox an indication of potential sales and distribution if they would comply with our wishes.

Everyone please feel free to add and delete from the email as you see fit. I think it will ultimately be Marks and  Rozs decision to make on the final draft since they sponsor the website. I think it would be nice if we could make a small donation to the effort it will take to create a link for all of us to sign and send to artbox. I will start the ball rolling and commit 10 pounds. I noticed there is PayPal logo for this.
                                                                dave :D

I think it is important to tell us a lot of what is in the set, however, they do not need to tell us every costume/prop that will be there.  Some surprises are good.  But I definitely want to see a guarantee per box.  Either guarantee 1 insert per box, 1 costume and 1 auto, etc.  Enough other companies do this and for those of us who do just buy a few boxes, it really sucks to get a dud.  Even if you only get a costuem numbered to 2000, it is better than nothing at all.  I once bought a box of 24 9the TV show) cards and the box says 0-4 inserts per box or something like that. I only got 1 in my box, but at least they let you know you might not get anything at all, or you could get 4!!  I think also, if Artbox will guarantee one pr box, we would all still like the chance to see more in that box.  Maybe guarantee one auto or costume per box, but you might get that and a filmcell AND a prop in that box in addition to the one they guaranteed.

I order from Amazon often and I always use the site's link when doing so.  The forum picks up a bit of cash and it doesn't cost you at all.  Although I'm sure they'd also appreciate  a donation from PayPal too! ;D

Wow - look at all the exciting things that have happened on the forum whilst I have been away... "when the cat's away the mice will play".

I am so proud, this is (in my humble opinion) a great idea. Mike is fully aware that this forum is here but they seem to be so rushed off their feet that no-one looks at it, or if they do they are pretty quiet about it (which may be more likely the case).

If you guys are up for this then I'll withdraw my tentative order for a case from a dealer and band with my Yak brothers  and sit this one out.

I've forwarded an email to our head campaigner Dave which I sent to Mike along these lines but one little lass in the UK is easier to ignore than a band of 250 forummers, so maybe he can let me know what he thinks :)

Anyway I will be back soon I just have to create one more program (I'm on a break in a C course) before I can leave tonight... and I'll have a look at your letter Dave and think about what else we can say...

Shackers Unite :) Great one guys :D

P.S. Dave thanks very much for thinking on this one, as the site has grown the bandwidth has become quite an issue :) especially with the price guide. This would also allow Mark to take the time away from doing his freelance work in the evenings that he's had to take on in order to to get us a petition page coded :)

Do you have any ideas how you would like it to work? What about the letter at the top centre of the page (when we have agreed it) and then you can either sign it (by putting in your name (which can be hidden from the outside world if you wish) and the number of boxes/cases bought, I think I can see in my head how this might work - but I'll wait til I see Mark over dinner tonight to work out the specifics.

Thanks again everyone!

Prehaps we could invite guest to the shack to sign our petition. The more the merrier. It always seems there are several guest on the shack and what better way to get them involved and prehaps make new members. There is definitely strength in numbers. Since this release is due in April or May we must work swiftly.
                                                                         dave[td][/td]

Roz - you don't have to cancel your order, just don't go crazy.  I still plan to get like 2 boxes of it, but not much more to start with.

Count me in!!

Artbox need to listen to their customers otherwise they will lose them.

I'm in too!  ;D

I'm in. I really havent bought a box yet but I'm going to try my luck on one soon. Does that count ???.

I have bought alot at the store * ;DLOL ;D*

No the point is to cancel my order in protest :P

And Mike, your vote counts as equally as the rest of us - after all you do hope to buy a box of this set!

Nice one everybody.

Just let me know how you see it working and I'll program away!

Roz's idea sounds like a good starting point, any other ideas or comments?

Thanks

Mark

Well I for one bought 6 cases --

 3  to open and 3 to resell ...

 so there's 60 boxes that won't get re-ordered unless I get more real information from Artbox .....
  I'd like to see what everybody else bought ---  I bet we'd be surprised what that totals ....
  Might put a jolt into Artbox if they think we're gonna boycott until more info comes forth ...

 ron

Well i would very much love artbox to quarentee no dud boxes. that is my mine grip. They have to realise that there are alot of parents out there that can't afford alot.And don't want to end up with nothing to show for there money


I will be signing and as everyone knows I brought 2 of the update boxes  1 was a dud and the other 1 costume card.

Hi Mark,
     I think it needs to be in a prominent place on the forum so when members and guest sign in they will see it. I not sure if it should be open to guests or not. Prehaps the signature could be the members or guests email or shacks' id if they do not what to disclose there name. Just some thoughts.                               dave

Just a silly question.... I can't read this thread as my eyes are going funny (too much research;)). But how are we intending to 'sign' this document?

Email? Username? Real name? Especially as I highly doubt that you are going to send one piece of paper around the world (actually, that could be quite fun ;))

I just don't think that Artbox are going to look at a list with names like ferdinand_the_yak and lbe highly influenced ;D

HI everyone I will give you my take for what its worth. I have owned two card companies and also am a wholesaler and eBay dealer and also I am starting a new card company. From a manufacturer standpoint you have to understand this is a business and they are in this to make money.Some manufacturers care and try to please the consumer but that is a very difficult thing to do. Case in point. Artbox makes a really nice product in the update and  puts in so many different elements but most are very unhappy unless they land the prized autograph or prop card etc.,They did not over produce this product. You and I pre ordered this product and the greed set in from what the prices went for in the first series. Think about it. Would the orders have been so huge if not for the first series being so short printed. Everyone was caught off guard and didn't use there heads when ordering the update set.So lets put most of the blame on us dealers and collectors.Like I said its a business and if you order the product they are going to print and sell the product.Artbox does care as I talk to them all the time and have told them what I have heard and read here. I think they will shoot themselves in the foot if they don't short print this next series. But let me ask all of us dealers and collectors this question. If they short the product and the demand is there and the price goes up too high we will have so many people who will be upset because of the high prices. it is very tough to please everyone. just think about this. the triple autograph sold for close to $2000. isn't that nuts?? But we the dealers and collectors set that price not Artbox.Input is very great to a card company and if they listen even better. If they don't then you have the choice not to support them look at both sides not just one side.Sorry to be long winded and I'm not the greatest writer in the world but I hope you get my drift  . Just put you're ideas all together (which a lot of them are great) and submit them and see what happens.  thanks Tom

Hi Tom,
            I do understand what you are saying . But from my point of view is I live in australia and artbox doesn't  sell the boxes here ,. I have to find a seller in the US to get my one or two boxes from including postage to here . Now with all that done. My first box arrives and it was a dud my second boxes arrives it is a costume card i am more that happy with it. it was on corlieus fudge but to me that is great.
Now you tell me why after saving my money ( as a mum of 6 kids )
that i should be happy to receive a dud box . All i would really like is for artbox to guarentee that i will never get another dud box.

I think that is not to much to ask really

Tom, you make some excellent points.  This is a business, and it's all about supply and demand.  Artbox gets no direct benefit from the secondary market (other than if dealers do well selling the cards, they'll be more likely to buy Artbox product in the future).  The company makes money when distributors order their products.  If there is a big demand for a release, they'd be foolish not to produce enough to meet the demand.

I know a lot of people got burned by the update, but as a collector, I love the set.  The cards look good and there's something for everyone.  I've never been able to buy that many inserts for so little money.  Yet, people rave over the first set, and I don't like it nearly as much as the update.  There are too many cards with a short print run, putting their prices out of reach, and those cards are mostly candy wrappers.  The update is much more interesting with its wider variety of cards.

As mcgonagall said, one of the bigger problems is dud boxes.  It happened with the first set as well as the update.  Surely there's some way Artbox can address this issue?

We still don't have much info about SS, but something tells me that it will be more like the first POA set.

as far as dud boxes who decides this?? most boxes cost the same for every product made today. some have an auto or sketch,chase card or two and a set or two.if you get a costume card that isn't rare it is considered a dud?? the problem was too many rare cards and nice common costume cards were called a dud. again you will never please everybody. most costume,autograph,sketch cards cost the manufacturer the same money to make. granted some are more plentiful but the cost is still the same.I repeat you cannot please everyone. there will always be someone who didn't like what they got. I break so many cases and I can tell you I too get very frustrated when the cases don't break in my favor but I understand that's the nature of this card business. if every box was the same no one would collect any of this.

What kbmum referred to as a dud box is a box that contained no costume, prop, creature, auto or filmcard.  A dud box only had base cards and foil chase cards.

A dud box to me is when you get no costume no auto no prop no creature cards you only get 1 base set and 3 chase cards.

that is a dud box

if that is a dud box then i would also say shame on them!!!no excuse for that!!

that was exactly what i got in the first box of POA update hobby box i got

nope i got that wrong i receive 2 base set in that first box

Tom, I,m sure greed played a factor in the preorder of cases of the update set for many dealers, and maybe even for the collectors as well as we saw the price of a box of the original set soar to $200.00 plus on eBay.(and you are right, who sets these prices but the folks who collect the cards, not the card manufacturer) Why not take advantage of what seemed a bargain in purchasing a case of Update cards for $590.00 if you thought you might be able to sell a box on eBay for $200.00 or even at $100.00. Quite a profit. Then we found out the print run was almost triple the first set, although I agree the update set has a much better selection of cards. Well the rest is history in my mind the cards have sold as low as $45.00 a box on eBay. As a collector I was banking on a profit from my purchase to obtain the cards I really wanted, so I took a chance even after reading some of the horrible results people were getting opening there cases here on the shack. But I opened my case anyway. The most impressive card I got from the whole case was a double Harry and Cedric costume card. I must say none of my boxes were duds, every box had a least one costume,autograph,or prop card and one box even had a prop and a film card. The total value of the cards according to the Yakshack value guide amounted to $245.65. which again was prices set by collectors not the manufacturer. All I am asking is for Artbox to be upfront with its printruns, card insertions, and rate of insertions. Other card companies do this why not artbox? I for one will not be burned again with a preorder of anything for Artbox. I will sit on the sidelines and watch what happens and read all the tibbits and forecast on the internet and then I will purchase what I like on ebay from whom I wish. It seem if you wait long enough even shortrun products come down in price.
  ;)http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=73570&item=6159225961&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

 a lot of people forget and i always have told people who ask me about what they think it will be worth now or later. i tell them buy and collect the cards because you like them not because they are worth more or less then you paid. remember this is called a hobby.i collected arcade machines for years bought new ones etc. when i sold them i lost half the value on my purchase. i was not mad at anyone because these machines were not worth the price i bought them for becuase i liked to collect and play them.almost everything we buy in life cars,clothes,you name it are worth less the day we pay for them.

I could not agree more Tom, the cards I collect are for the hobby, not to sell later. Most of my collection I plan to keep permanently :)

Of course it would be far more satisfying to pull a Harry autograph over a Harry costume, but for me, the thrill of pulling a chase card overrides the desire to always have profitable buy-sell ratios:)

It is the same with me I collect for me and my kids we have no intention of selling the cards we get. unless i pull double of a card i already have.

That is why I want a guarentee from artbox about no duds

I feel that no matter what the value of the cards are, or will be in the future Artbox should be smart enough to see that the first set created a huge tweak in the supply and demand curve, and people ordered a lot more of the update set, and rather than push the supply all the way to in fact exceed demand, they should have economists on their staff that explain that by creating an amount of product that will still spark growth in the market and possibly grow the demand curve for this coming up set, but rather they fed off the greed of the collector and in fact the demand curve has shrunk right back to where it was for the first set.  And if they don't get it right we could be on a roller coster ride of short printed set, then overprinted set.  My beef is the same as any collector here, there are soooo many cards in this set numbered over 1,000, I should be pulling at least 1 costume in every box opened.  Inkworks has a costume and autograph in most of the boxes of their product, why can't artbox do something similar.  I never thought that I would say even topps does a better job at making the boxes at least feel like you have a sporting chance to pull something good to add to your colllection besides 5 foil cards and a box topper.  The update set had a lot of great cards that will forever remain in my collection, but overall artbox could have done a lot better with this set to make collectors happy.  just my thoughts

ztaylork

Tom, apparently I did not make myself completely clear in my previous posting. I collect for the true joy of collecting also. But maybe unlike some folks have limited funds. I was trying to beat the curve by buying a case of the update set. Hoping to sell the boxes unopened at a profit. I bought  all of my collection on ebay one card at a time and feel I have put together a rather impressive collection which I hope I will never have to sell. I have been hooked on Harry Potter since the first book, i thought it was a brillant work. When I told you i decided to open the case i got it was only after the box prices dropped to $45.00 a box on ebay and some of the cards that I had not already purchased remained in my collection, such as Cedrics costume card, Harry's Far away costume card, and Lupin's Dark shirt.  The rest I returned to eBay to try to recoup what funds I could to purchase more cards. The point I am trying to get across is Artbox needs to be more consistent or more forecoming with its costumers. I STILL THINK ARTBOX NEEDS TO BE UPFRONT WITH THE PRINTRUN, INSERTS, AND  CARD RATIOS.  I will continue to admire and collect  there products since they have the franchise on the Harry Potter Film Cards and I am just a Harry Potter freak.                dave

again collectors will decide the price on what they are willing to pay for an item.most series go down in price from when they are first released. that's just the way it is. when the product is over produced you do not have the collectors or dealers to buy it up and the price drops.I know people who ordered cases from me and were only box buyers and I asked them why?? the reason is they thought because the first series was so great they would take a chance on the second series. I told them that as long as I have been in this business that when a first series is hot and goes up in price everyone jumps on the second series and it turns to mush.the problem also is on eBay. you have dealers and collectors selling there cards and they are not a real business and don't care what they sell these cards for. I am a business and must compete with collectors and dealers who sell and don't pay any taxes. if this was a site where everybody had to pay there fair share of taxes you would also see different prices.

This is actually a valid point, we are trying to recoup costs from our doubles to purchase more cards, not usually make a profit  :-\

the internet has made it great for the consumer but horrible for the real business person. all of us work for a living and if most other businesses were run like the card business we would all be in big trouble and looking for employment.most other businesses you cannot order direct from as they protect there distributors and dealers. not in the card business.

Tom, I not sure I understand what you are saying. Do you mean i can order directly from Artbox? I don't think so. I believe you have to have a business license and in some cases show pictures of a storefront and  the inside of your store before a card company would considered selling to you and then I don't believe Artbox would sell directly to the business owner, since they have a distributorship set up, who is allow to sell retail to the public and wholesale to the dealers who meet the above requirements. If this is not correct please let me know as I had thought of opening a business to be able to get the wholesale price for cards. In my state of West Virginia if you become a Business to sell cards you have to keep meticulous tax records and the rate is 6%.  I have checked many options to add to my HP collection at a reasonable price and found the only alternation is eBay at this point. Some times you get lucky on a card, some times you pay more that you wish. Prehaps since you have been in the business you would like to share with our fellow shackers what you as a card producer might sell your product to a distributor for, and what that distributor might sell that product wholesale to a business for, as compared to retail to an individual. If not you could you PM me as I am still very interested in opening a business and would not want to jump in until I have heard from an expert. Thanks, dave

have to just say not all companies do this (a few do which i will not name) case closed tom

OK - this is what I propose we write (building on Dave's original post that started this thread).

Dear Artbox,


We would like to bring to your attention the concerns we have with your  upcoming release of the Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's (Philosopher's) Stone Trading Card Set.

First let us mention that as collectors we have been really impressed with the quality of your two Harry Potter card sets and have spent many hours admiring and actively seeking them.

However, it is in this context that we were also very disappointed with your last release of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban Update cards - both dealers and collectors who bought boxes and cases of the product have felt let down in many respects.

One major criticism we have had with both sets is that a good deal of Hobby boxes were "duds" i.e. there were no props, costumes, autographs or film cards in them. No other card manufacturer has so many problems with dud boxes - finding a "dud box" is very rare in Topps cards and manufacturers such as Inkworks and Rittenhouse guarantee that you will receive something in each box. At $60 per box in the US and £45 per box in the UK it is unacceptable to get one to two base sets and a few foil cards.


We also find it unnerving that there is a lack of information about the details of the sets prior to release. We appreciate that you may wish to "surprise" us, but when dealers and collectors are putting out a great deal of money upfront, it seems better to have some reliable information on insert cards and ratios from an accountable source. Perhaps such information could be published on your website? Many other successful card manufacturers work this way --  for example take a look at Inkworks (www.inkworks.com) and Rittenhouse's (www.scifihobby.com) websites. You will see that they publish pictures and insert ratios for all their cards, well in advance of a release (a month or more), along with some indication of how many cases will be produced and the rarity of the autographs.

We encourage you, as other card companies do - to let the customers know what to expect.

Would this be too much to ask given how much money we've already spent on your products and intend to spend in the future?

Yours,

The Undersigned

Please let me know asap what you would change/ add / take away etc as the site is ready as soon as we have the text. Please be aware that this will be the main letter but there is room for invididual comments when you sign.

It looks good to me! ;D

Anybody else with any comments?

Definately a two thumbs up!

How is it going to be sent?  Are we all going to copy it and Email it to Artbox on mass?

Hey Sharon, Mark (MakTheYak on here - and the guy who's comics are on the front page of this website - www.theyakshack.co.uk) has built a site - this letter will be at the top (I'll put it up tomorrow morning so that the American Members and Australian Members will have had time to look at it and approve it - and underneath you will be able to "sign" it.

I'll post the link and invite signees sometime around tomorrow lunchtime :)

Nice to have you on board :D

After my two dud first boxes I really want a better set.

Are you going to leave the signing part on for a few days?  On a slightly selfish note I am not actually on the internet and am just 'borrowing' my brothers PC so I cannot always get on every night.  No probs if it has to go off straight away.  I understand we are running out of time.

Thanks to you and Mark for taking the time to do this. ;D

Not at all - I think we ought to leave it up  a while - at least 3 days before we send it off to the powers that be - after all Artbox do have 3 sets lined up for this year so it's not just the Sorcerers (phooo) stone that we care about - I do know a lot of people skipping it and moving on to saving for Goblet :)

Here here I think might actaully buy a box of Goblet  :o

This is fine, Roz.  It expresses our concerns, and hopefully will elicit a response from Artbox.

Sounds good  ;D ;D

Yup! Hit's the spot in all the right places Roz. ;)

I feel a bit odd signing this petition as I didn't buy any boxes/cases of these cards - but I do feel very strongly for those of you who did, because I know how much you've all spent on these sets, how rubbish the insert collation has been for them and how disappointed most of you have been as a result of this.

Don't worry about that Jules, the point is we are all at various levels of the chain - artbox sell to dealers who part break down and part sell sealed product - at which stage you choose to buy is up to you ;)

nice stuff, i'm up for squigling a little signiture at the bottom of that  ;)

Good man good man .... nice to see you back on here Ben, it's been very quiet without ya mate!  ;D

You're quite right of course Roz, I hadn't thought of it like that. ;)

I will definately put my name to it  :D great work

Ahhh you aint seen nothing yet ;) Mark's done the hard work with the site itself

 ;D

Well, Id be more than happy to put my name to that letter  ;D

Anna brought this up in another thread:  Should we also address the collation problem?  Some cases didn't have autos, props, or creature cards.  Some boxes had no inserts, but tons of foils.

I did consider it - but I thought that if boxes were missing things then it would lead to the fact that cases were too - but I agree maybe we need to express it more clearly - can you think of a way?

Maybe a paragraph like this?

The collation problems extended to the cases.  There were far too many cases that contained no autographs or no props.  While we can understand that this will happen occasionally, and not every box or case will have inserts exactly meeting the specified odds, it was far too prevalent for collectors to ignore.

I think this paragraph is well worded and would fit into the letter nicely between paragraphs 4 and 5.

What does everyone else think?

Dear Artbox,

We would like to bring to your attention the concerns we have with your  upcoming release of the Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's (Philosopher's) Stone Trading Card Set.

First let us mention that as collectors we have been really impressed with the quality of your two Harry Potter card sets and have spent many hours admiring and actively seeking them.

However, it is in this context that we were also very disappointed with your last release of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban Update cards - both dealers and collectors who bought boxes and cases of the product have felt let down in many respects.

One major criticism we have had with both sets is that a good deal of Hobby boxes were "duds" i.e. there were no props, costumes, autographs or film cards in them. No other card manufacturer has so many problems with dud boxes - finding a "dud box" is very rare in Topps cards and manufacturers such as Inkworks and Rittenhouse guarantee that you will receive something in each box. At $60 per box in the US and £45 per box in the UK it is unacceptable to get one to two base sets and a few foil cards.

The collation problems extended to the cases.  There were far too many cases that contained no autographs or no props.  While we can understand that this will happen occasionally, and not every box or case will have inserts exactly meeting the specified odds, it was far too prevalent for collectors to ignore.

We also find it unnerving that there is a lack of information about the details of the sets prior to release. We appreciate that you may wish to "surprise" us, but when dealers and collectors are putting out a great deal of money upfront, it seems better to have some reliable information on insert cards and ratios from an accountable source. Perhaps such information could be published on your website? Many other successful card manufacturers work this way --  for example take a look at Inkworks (www.inkworks.com) and Rittenhouse's (www.scifihobby.com) websites. You will see that they publish pictures and insert ratios for all their cards, well in advance of a release (a month or more), along with some indication of how many cases will be produced and the rarity of the autographs.

We encourage you, as other card companies do - to let the customers know what to expect.

Would this be too much to ask given how much money we've already spent on your products and intend to spend in the future?

Yours,

The Undersigned

Like so?

P.S. Nice addition Cindy  ;D

It looks great Roz! ;D

I think everyone's gripes/concerns are covered in the letter now.

Looks good to me!  When do you think you'll have it ready?

wtg roz it is perfect

As soon as Mark gets a 2 minute break he'll put it up and ready to go - I think he's doing it now  ;D

I'm ready to sign!

OK guys - want to be our guinea pigs and be the first people to sign up?

Well then - here goes - if you get any errors etc then please understand we've done this in a hurry and post them here :)

http://www.theyakshack.co.uk/tradingcards/?page=petition

all signed

thank you roz and Mark for giving us a
way to complain on mass with artbox

I added my signature plus my own personal comment.

Thanks Mark and Roz for putting together this petition for us.  I know it takes a lot of time and effort to do so.

No no - thank YOU for supporting us.

Now - I don't like to abuse everyone's email address who has signed up on the shack - but do you think this warrants an email to all signed up members?

Just in case they think this is a quiet time between sets and they don't log on this week?

That's a good idea.  Not everyone logs on every day or every week.

I personaly don't think this kind of thing can be classed as 'abusing' someones email...

I think it's a very good idea.  ;D ;D

Am going to sign but feel bad that I bought no boxes or cases was going to put

"I did not buy any boxes in this set but would be highly likely to buy a box/s in the future."

Is that alright? :-\

Sounds fine, but are you sure about 'highly likely' or was it meant to be 'highly unlikely'?

Have changed it a bit.

I did not buy any boxes in this set, and chose instead to purchase cards individually. However, I would be highly likely to buy a box/s in the future as long as I felt well informed on inserts and that I could trust the insert ratios

And its sent now  ;D

Just a quick note to say you have to check your email and then verify your signature before it appears on the petition - so once you have submitted it - see if you have an email - it should be almost instant :)

Off to look my hotmail doesn't tell me about my eamils when it should. ::)

I think this is FANTASTIC!!! I have signed it and I really hope that Artbox reply and act on our letter/comments, otherwise there will be many of us that will not purchase again  :o

Put in my contribution!

Just wondering, can anyone view the petition itself (with everyone's submissions etc) after submitting their post?

Not yet :D

It's coming.

It's currently set up so forum members can see the email addresss of those who signed, but in most cases forum members can look up emails anyway - does anyone object to this - shall we make it so emails are hidden for forum views?

It might be an idea to do that Roz as you don't really 'know' who uses the Forum and what they might wish to use our email addresses for. :-\

I agree, if we need to contact each other, we can always use the PM function!

Not that I do not trust frum members with my email... but who knows what nasty people are out there!

 :o

NOW who's been watching too many X-FIles??

It's the government's my policy to DENY EVERYTHING!

I think you should hide the email addresses.  I don't even list mine in my profile because of all the junk email I get.

Oh apparently it's just me and Mark that can see the email addresses - my mistake ;)

Hi Roz,
          After i signed the petition it said would you like to view signatures so i looked and all it showed
was the persons name how many boxes they brought and there comment.

Good good.

Right - guys there are 6 people who have signed the petition and have very good points to get across but have not verified their comments by email.

Please do this so your comments will be seen by Artbox.

Another interesting gadget Mark built in is this...

http://www.theyakshack.co.uk/tradingcards/index.php?page=petition&action=stats

Which shows you how many boxes our opinion adds up to :) At the present moment that's 1922 boxes... wow our fingers must be raw from sorting out all those base cards!

That's about 4,000 base sets ;)

Hey Roz – What’s the status of the petition?  Are we ready to send it yet?  Let’s see we have 33 signatures, but 1 is unconfirmed? ???  Who didn’t confirm their signature?  And why do we only have 33 sigs?  There are 289 registered members and only 33 have signed?  Where are the other 256 signature? ???  Granted not everyone here is a Harry Potter fan *shakes head unbelievingly*, but I know there are more than 33 of us.

If we don’t voice our concerns en masse, Artbox’s total lack of communication with the collecting world isn’t going to change one bit.  As a collector, I feel we need information from them before their release of a product.  If anyone has not signed the petition yet, please do so.  I really feel our petition would have more merit with them if we had more signatures.

Okay, I’ll get off my soap box now.  Thank you in advance to any additional member who signs our petition, and thanks also to those who have already signed. :)

Anna

What if someone were to post the link to the petition on the NSU forum http://nonsportupdate.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x (http://nonsportupdate.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x)

and any other trading card forums for that matter?

I don't think NSU would allow it - unfortunately they feel obliged to be constantly nice to card companies otherwise Harris won't get his free boxes or future advertising contracts.

What other Harry Potter Trading Card forums are there? I set this one up as I couldn't find any others ;)

I'll send it off but I agree with Anna the sig number is pretty low.

I think the NSU board is mostly funded by the card companies isnt  it? Hence the strict "rules".
Anyway, i've just signed the petition, but my confirmation link dosent work, i get an error message when i click it? ???

doh >.< I feel really silly now...I'm still 'new' to all of this  :-\  

No no, don't feel silly - they wouldn't like the fact that there's a link from the petition to this forum either  ::)

Dont worry, we were all newbies once! This time last year i'd have given you a funny look if you'd even mentioned trading cards to me! ;D Then i bought a cheap box and started on that slippery slope..... ::)

Hey Roz, any ideas why my link wont work? ???

I'll get him out of work to solve this one :P it's odd actually I don't think we've had any other complaints... perhaps things are going pear shaped :P uh oh - has Artbox been hacking the site


I should really heed my own advice - I ought to remember that Artbox would spend their time on sorting out their own site if they had those sorts of hacking skills.

He hee - that brings to mind an idea - why don't we hack the Artbox site (we do have a white hacker on the forum) and put up the latest known details - wouldn't that make you all chuckle??

 ;D

Bah! Foiled! I'm actually an Artbox spy, sent in to nobble the petition. ;D
On another note, i see that on another forum someone has emailed Artbox to ask when more information will be avaliable, and the answer was "When the cards are released"
Thanks Artbox! ::)

Yeah I spotted that - that was NSU/Card Talk. I can't believe how rude that is! It's completely shocking! It sends out the message:

"Just send us your money and we'll send you what we feel like".

I think they are reaching the edge of our good will here!

I saw that same post.  Artbox's response annoyed me enough to post in this thread about the status of the petition.  Their attitude definitely needs adjusting! >:(

Off topic here for a second.


Card Talk isn't funded by anyone except Non-Sport Update. There are advertisers (mostly sellers) who pay for ad space, but really, that's not enough money to support the board.

There are 'strict' rules because we Americans need strict rules or we go all wacky and stupid :) You Brits are much better behaved. I've not seen one nasty post or innapropriate post here, yet on CT there have been because people (Americans like ME) are ignorant or just don't give a darn... either way, the rules are needed to keep focus there.

And yes, I go back and forth about this on just about any board I am on. I would prefer if CT would release a little of the structure, but I certainly can also see the need for it. We just had an instance there where a member thought it was perfectly fine to discuss his particular "adult" fetishes right there under "General Card Discussion" where it most certainly was unwelcome :(  and distasteful and downright nasty...

But, one of the reasons I like this board is that everyone seems to be civil and I can say things like "Check out www.blahblahblah.com for this or that :)

Thanks for your couple of cents :) (see? I am learning all sorts of Yank phrases through you guys)


Much as I would love this opportunity to YankBash I can't! Too many of my very best friends have inadvertendly been discovered (much to my shock and amazement) to be Americans... in fact Mark's got one hiding out in his home right now (and for the forseeable future).

Does this board still have a British feel then? I rather think that probably half of us are in the UK but at least half must be from other nations, we have some very active Aussies and some chatty US folk.

But you are right - all in all we have been spared a lot of "flaming" I am not sure whether this is by good luck or good measure :P, I have always thought that this was because we avoided posing too many rules on folk no one felt the need to try to brake them.

Oops! Apologies, my mistake!
However i am disappointed to find that www.blahblahblah.com dosen't actually work! ;D

This board does have a different feel to it. Not having had the chance to travel abroad - though my HUSBAND has ;) I'd say it feels more "on-topic" and civil (less argumentative, etc.) which is entirely a GOOD thing ...

At last I know someone famous :D

This was my brother who sent the email to Artbox.  He was supposed to send the full email to me so that I could put it on here in full - on Card Talk he could only put a quote.  But as yet he hasn't, some excuse about going to work (can't get the staff!!!)


Totally off topic now.  I think my brother met your hubby at a Card Talk meeting.  I know everyone their was so grateful the 'important people' took the time to meet the collectors.  Now why can't Artbox be like that ???

Work! Poor excuse if you ask me!  ;D Does your brother not post on this board then Sharon?

No, but he does take sneaky peaks  ;)

I think he thinks that one member of our family is enough for the Shackers to suffer (try saying that three times quickly ;D)

I would do but i think my flatmates would think i'm strange!! ;D

I sent an email to Artbox yesterday, to see if I'd get a different response.  They sent me a nicer message:

We don't have details for the HP1 yet, however we should have something in a couple weeks.

We're also working on the website too!
Sorry for the inconvenience.

Artbox Entertainment
Customer Service

well this sounds promising

-crosses fingers- ^_^x

Well, he wasn't hard to miss - the dazed, sleepless look on his face ;) Actually, I've only seen one photo of Robert from Memorabilia last fall - and he looked utterly ridiculous :) Now, I've seen plenty of other people, so maybe your brother was in one of those pics!!

Harsh - jetlagged maybe - ridiculous? No

Regardless of the number of signatures, approximately when will the petition be sent to Artbox?  We're less than a month away from the release!

Fear not Cindy, Roz has everything in hand - it's already gone, however any more sigs added afterwards may still be seen, so if you have been dillying and dallying it's time to whip into action!

Excellent!  I was just getting worried that if we waited much longer, Artbox would get the petition too late to have any affect on the SS release. :)

Maybe now we'll get some info on the SS release. :)
It's only a month away!

I know it hasn't been long since it was sent, but has artbox responded with anything yet?