The state of cards *LONG POST O_o*

[Guest]

[Jason]

How is the non sports trading card market doing? In short it’s dying. Now now hang on before you all jump up and lynch me for being a heretic or just let me explain what I mean:

The non sports industry is at the moment thriving with new sets literally coming out weekly, and more and more people are becoming interested in what was once only the home to geeks and strange ladies with too many cats.. but there are more and more speculators out there now and seemingly fewer collectors. With more and more dealers popping up all around us its becoming hard to keep up. The manufacturers are doing there damndest to overprint tat and sell it on as fast as possable, (sorry read: bring as many interesting sets to the market as possible as quickly as possible)

There are quit frankly TOO MANY sets out there at the moment with more and more planned. You cant buy everything and the number of new collectors compared to the number of new sets is staggering. We are reaching the boom busty situation. This is the same thing that happened in the 90’s with comic books (every different variation and cover mounted diamond inset holographic turd special edition number 1 you can imagine still sits in the 25p bin.)

Too many sets competing for the same money means none of them are out for long and most of them are overpriced because of it. Substandard sets are pumped out in the hope that they will be bought very quickly before they are inevitably dumped (Lost 2 will be one of these you watch). The same day the sets are released big dealers are selling them at about £1.00 over wholesale price to get rid of them fast. This means boxes which at retail are meant to be £50-60 sell for £30-45, they are stripped, placed on eBay and sold for next to nothing. Can anyone remember when basic sets had a value? Now they are the trash that gets dumped for £1.99 BIN. Who want an autograph from the second orc on the left just out of shot from most of the movie unless you squint?

Now don’t get me wrong some of the sets out recently are great truly works of art, the Lord of the Rings sets are all very nice to look at and the recent Evolution set was a great move, all sketch cards and some good quality ones, this set injected some real interest and life into the hobby, unlike ANYTHING Inkworks have produced in the last 12 months perhaps more. Show me ONE set they have made that isn’t exactly like every other set they make? SSDD 

Artbox still plod along with their Harry Potter cards and now we will have 4 (possibly 5) sets of it to collect this year.. there are great cards BUT they are making too many too often, they need to space it out and milk the sets to produce a little more. They are acting to short term much like Rittenhouse who will print just about anything on a bit of card and ship it out. (preferably with a star trek emblem on it) Their boxes got smaller, they put less cards in their packs and their prices went up YAY!

As for Cards inc, well on the manufacturing side let me say that they just suck. They are one of the poorest manufacturers I have ever had a product from. They can’t collate nor can they effectively market or package their own goods. I hope they stick with wholesale and get completely out of card production. Keep making cookie jars guys, your half decent at that at least.

Strictly Ink well I have a lot of time for them (I must have I have been waiting almost a year for some of the sets I have on order from them… they are endlessly delayed but no doubt when there goods come out they will be worth the wait.

Premium cards are dropping in value within weeks and now even the “safe” cards that you could almost guarantee would keep their price are dropping at the point of retail. The majority of dealers I am in contact with have seen a steady decline in single card sales and pack sales no longer exist, you buy a box a set  or a chase card but you don’t get a pack unless you go to a comic shop. Card dealers don’t sell packs any more as it’s not worth their time. Collectors are becoming spoiled for choice which on one hand is great as it means a lot of sets are available to buy and the choice is nice, but it has a cost, and the cost is high. The price you pay is devaluation of cards, and the “choice” you have is really very limited. If you want something from a major movie or TV show, great, no doubt someone will be making a set just for you, talk to Inkworks who have how many Buffy sets? How many Charmed sets? What about Topps and their never ending Lord of the Rings sets?  But what about new and original sets? You have to look at smaller companies - the new Wizard of Oz set is one that I can honestly say took me by surprise it is a quality set, and it’s completely unexpected these days. I don’t think I have seen a set that wasn’t based on a recent film or TV show for a long time. If you have read this far then wow well done!


You probably think I hate this hobby, but I don’t, I worry about it because I think this endless production of pointless clone sets will come crashing down around us soon, and that could spell a massive implosion in the whole market. I would hate for that to happen. What we need is less formulaic card manufacturing and more creative long lasting sets. Sometimes less really is more.

I had meant this to be a short and more concise conversation starter rather than coming across as a longwinded incoherent rant but it seems I am a lot more out of practice with this type of thing than I like to think. lol sorry about that

[Roz]

OK, you've vented your own personal opinion, and I'm going to put forth mine.

Substandard sets are pumped out in the hope that they will be bought very quickly before they are inevitably dumped (Lost 2 will be one of these you watch).

Unlikely - do you mean Revelations? Even so, Inkworks have actually adjusted the print run of this set to reflect the fact that it's a bonus set between major sets, and I think it contains some good surprises. I have faith in the set.

This means boxes which at retail are meant to be £50-60 sell for £30-45

The market's changing, we all have to adjust to change, if you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. Most people on this board are collectors, and for us the squeezing down of profits on sealed products is a good thing .

Artbox still plod along with their Harry Potter cards and now we will have 4 (possibly 5) sets of it to collect this year.. there are great cards BUT they are making too many too often, they need to space it out and milk the sets to produce a little more.

I partially agree here. There are too many Potter sets this year, and although GOFU is a wonderful set to collect the prices are rock bottom. This is partly because everyone's either on holiday or saving to go on holiday, and ANOTHER HP set is perhaps lower on their priority list.

I don't know what you mean by "they need to space it out and milk the sets to produce a little more" - I think Artbox already milk potter like mad. How many other series do you know where there are 50 cards to chase per set with some numbered to very very very few? I'm not a fan of their tactics, but I am a fan of their cards. I think that they need to be very careful this year because GOFU hasn't been the success everyone would expect based on the content, so it's time to be careful, HP is too expensive a license to mess up.

... much like Rittenhouse who will print just about anything on a bit of card and ship it out. (preferably with a star trek emblem on it) Their boxes got smaller, they put less cards in their packs and their prices went up YAY!

An interesting opinion, I think Rittenhouse is really getting away from what's "norm" for them - X-Men was a really great surprise for me, and I like chasing their tougher chase. I think the boxes are too big personally 40 packs is too many for me with one auto per box, but the extra levels of chase in X-men helped me cope with this.

Premium cards are dropping in value within weeks and now even the “safe” cards that you could almost guarantee would keep their price are dropping at the point of retail.

Honestly, I'm not sure this is the hobby you should be in.

The majority of dealers I am in contact with ...

So some of them are friendly with you after all?

[gingerninja]

I used to collect cards in the early 90's as long with comics and have just started once more (cards only)
I agree with some of what you are saying Jason - I think that there are just to many chase, auto, whatever cards per sets nowadays, making it hard for people to complete as a lot of them are going for to high a price.  In the end it will damage cards as it did the comics industry with all the different covers you have mentioned.

Also I agree that a lot of kids as I once was will probably not buy packs as I did, instead you need to buy boxes leaving a lot of kids unable to afford to do that.

Some good things have happend however, I like costume cards and even autograph cards however I feel as if there are to many per set.  The good thing is I am now able to complete most of my outstanding sets from the 90's as all the chase cards are dead cheap, this however should serve as a warning to those who think most of the cards you have now will be worth a fortune in the future. 
In 10 years time most films and TV series will of been forgot as new ones replace them meaning new card collectors in 10 years time will not be into Smallville or 4400, lost, harry potter etc

[sketchqueen]

"Also I agree that a lot of kids as I once was will probably not buy packs as I did, instead you need to buy boxes leaving a lot of kids unable to afford to do that."

As the parent of a now (today) 8 year old, I can tell you that he buys cards by the pack all the time. We frequent comic books stores, mass market retailers and every chance he gets, he buys a pack. He is so totally unconcerned with completing sets that it bothers me a little, but to him it's the fun of opening packs.

He never stops to read how many chase there are in any particular set; nor are the single pack prices so far out of his price range (usually 1-2 dollars a pack or more depending on the particular event - usually he can get good deals on packs at conventions - lesser deals at comic shops.

So, I guess my point is that kids buy differently than we, adults, do. Maybe we should take a page out of their books